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  1. #421

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    Not everyone thinks that Ven's designs/aesthetic are "crap".
    I like many of them - and would purchase some of the finished pieces, if I had the opportunity.

    I feel the same about individual items from several of the PR contestants, also.

    To each their own.

  2. #422

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    Not everyone thinks that Ven's designs/aesthetic are "crap"...
    I wasn't speaking for "everyone". However, I do think that he designs for himself and that his range is very narrow. While some of his flori/fabrigami elements are beautiful in and of themselves, they are not always flattering, not even on 5'10", 100-lb runway models. Especially the rose. If he scaled it down to a subtle detail instead of having it explode all over a woman's chest or hips (LOOK AT WHAT I CAN DO WITH SHINY RED/WHITE/BLACK FABRIC!!!!!) I'd probably like it better. But that is just me.
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    I wasn't speaking for "everyone". However, I do think that he designs for himself and that his range is very narrow. While some of his flori/fabrigami elements are beautiful in and of themselves, they are not always flattering, not even on 5'10", 100-lb runway models. Especially the rose. If he scaled it down to a subtle detail instead of having it explode all over a woman's chest or hips (LOOK AT WHAT I CAN DO WITH SHINY RED/WHITE/BLACK FABRIC!!!!!) I'd probably like it better. But that is just me.
    For me, it was interesting the first time. Nice the second time. But by this challenge, it was "oh, that again." He needs something other than that one trick. Think of how long some designers have been sending out three or four collections a year--does the world need to see that rose thing in forty or more pieces at three or four shows a year for thirty years?

  4. #424

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    For me, it was interesting the first time. Nice the second time. But by this challenge, it was "oh, that again." He needs something other than that one trick. Think of how long some designers have been sending out three or four collections a year--does the world need to see that rose thing in forty or more pieces at three or four shows a year for thirty years?
    Exactly. Roses, fans, and asymmetrical zippers. Can you do anything else, Ven?
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    Not everyone thinks that Ven's designs/aesthetic are "crap".
    I like many of them - and would purchase some of the finished pieces, if I had the opportunity...
    I mentioned previously that perhaps Ven now understands how "crappy" he made his client feel in the real woman challenge, but I haven't seen where anyone here called Ven's designs/aesthetic "crap." Just that it might have benefited him, particularly in the print challenge, to come up with something different for a change. Or, at the least, to utilize his "cultural" aesthetic in a more effective and unexpected way. All Tim tried to do was send Ven a strong message that in his judgement, Ven was on the wrong track with his look for the print challenge. From the beginning of this season, Ven's arrogance and his over-reliance on the flower motif, IMO, has detracted from his obvious talent.

    As far as the way Tim described Ven's initial work-in-progress, it may be offensive in connotation, but IMHO definitely NOT the worst insult or most tasteless comment ever made on the show. Tim is usually very kind and protective toward the designers. Whenever Tim does have something pointed to say to or about a designer, it seems to me he has specific reasons for being so blunt (very interesting re Nomad's anecdote about Tim's revelations during a recent book signing). If there was a contest re who has uttered the most and/ or the worst insulting comments on PR, I believe Michael Kors would be the winner by a long mile, Heidi in second, and many current and former contestants not far behind.

    It is kind and considerate of you to be supportive of Ven, skatesindreams. ITA that Ven will likely have many people interested in purchasing garments from his collection. Some posts back, I indicated that I thought both Ven's and Elena's final collections make a bigger impact than those of the other designers. Unfortunately, both Ven and Elena also have kinda "crappy" personalities, or at least that is what they have both been showing for the most part during the PR10 season.

  6. #426

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    I mentioned previously that perhaps Ven now understands how "crappy" he made his client feel in the real woman challenge, but I haven't seen where anyone here called Ven's designs/aesthetic "crap." ...
    {raises hand} I did. Post #420.
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  7. #427
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    I don't have an issue with Tim being frank and uncomplimentary. I just thought the menstrual pad thing was crude, and not befitting Tim.

  8. #428

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I don't have an issue with Tim being frank and uncomplimentary. I just thought the menstrual pad thing was crude, and not befitting Tim.
    {shrugs} He said what he thought. So what? Are people really so prudish and prissy that any mention of natural body functions is offensive? If so, then why aren't people bitching about Fabio's penis/vagina/fallopian tubes print?
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  9. #429

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    All of the comments seemed particularly inappropriate and abusive to me when the subject of the challenge reflected something so personal as the designer's religious/ethnic background.
    I would - and have been - just as bothered when the judges have made similar remarks to/about other designers.

    I don't have an issue with Tim being frank and uncomplimentary. I just thought the menstrual pad thing was crude, and not befitting Tim.
    Exactly, cruisin!

  10. #430

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    nm
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I don't have an issue with Tim being frank and uncomplimentary. I just thought the menstrual pad thing was crude, and not befitting Tim.
    Your point taken, cruisin! Altho' Tim's comments didn't offend me, your take does in turn make me wonder what all the editing monkey cut out from Ven's footage this season (especially what else Tim witnessed that completely turned him off re Ven; perhaps Ven's attitude and remarks had a pile-on effect for Tim over the course of the season).

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    {raises hand} I did. Post #420.
    Okay, I missed that: "'signature' fabri/florigami crap." In the context in which you said that tho' do you mean you completely and totally find Ven's designs/aesthetic "crap"? I don't get that you mean that exactly, since you also qualified by saying: "... some of his flori/fabrigami elements are beautiful in and of themselves ..."

    ITA that Ven's design range seems "narrow," and he doesn't appear to be interested in stretching himself.


    ETA: (in response to cruisin' and skatesindreams)
    "Menstrual pad" was not the first analogy that came to mind for me, but then again as someone posted earlier, we are only seeing the designs on television and not up close and personal.

    Again, Tim's critique, IMO, is not the worst I've ever heard on PR. I truthfully felt very bad for Gunnar the way his effort was picked apart by the judges (altho' their design critiques were valid). I mainly felt bad for Gunnar because it was the pain of bullying he had experienced in childhood that inspired his sketch. Unfortunately, PR is a format which does not allow designers any time to perfect their ideas. Gunnar's print design and completed outfit was not good and that's too bad. I think Mondo empathized with Gunnar and felt that Ven should go over Gunnar. I can see why Gunnar was sent home, and I think he was hurt but he also realized that what he created in that challenge was not a great effort. Ven, OTOH, took everything so personal and as a result probably has learned very little and not grown at all from the experience of being on the show.

    But, the show is not over yet, so we shall see.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 09-17-2012 at 03:28 AM.

  12. #432

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ...

    Okay, I missed that: "'signature' fabri/florigami crap." In the context in which you said that tho' do you mean you completely and totally find Ven's designs/aesthetic "crap"? ..."
    Not quite. What I think is crap about Ven's design/aesthetic is that he lets the fabri/florigami technique overwhelm whatever he makes. It's all about the garment, not the woman wearing the garment. To me, he's putting his technical skills on display and saying "Look at me and what I can do!" The human being wearing said design is basically irrelevant. She's just a walking hanger with a head. He's not using his skills to make women look/feel more beautiful. I don't think he even likes women all that much. His ideas would be fab if he used them and adapted them to showcase the woman. But he doesn't.
    Last edited by Nomad; 09-16-2012 at 11:34 PM.
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  13. #433
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    ^^ ITA! I think you hit the nail on the head, Nomad. Or better yet, nailed it re Ven's "flori/fabrigami" obsession: ... he's putting his technical skills on display and saying "Look at me and what I can do!" ... He's not using his skills to make women look/feel more beautiful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    {shrugs} He said what he thought. So what? Are people really so prudish and prissy that any mention of natural body functions is offensive? If so, then why aren't people bitching about Fabio's penis/vagina/fallopian tubes print?
    ITA with your above take as well! I personally was not offended by Tim's comment. I think he simply meant that for the print challenge the shape and color of Ven's ubiquitous flower design had a resemblance to "a menstrual pad," in his estimation.

    On reflection tho' perhaps the "menstrual pad" comment could offend some for a complicated variety of reasons. IOW, it may not have been just the indirect reference to "bodily functions" that irked some. It might also have been that the analogy raises the specter of equating what naturally happens to women and young girls as they mature as being somehow disgusting or equivalent to something that is negative and displeasing. However, I give Tim the benefit of the doubt, in that it is impossible to know for certain whether he consciously makes or intends that kind of negative association, simply because Ven's flower design struck him the way it did.

  14. #434

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    He's not using his skills to make women look/feel more beautiful.
    I suspect that few designers consider that, much less achieve it.

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    I suspect that few designers consider that, much less achieve it.
    Absolutely! Have you seen Marc Jacobs runway looks lately? Funky, but hardly flattering.

  16. #436

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    I suspect that few designers consider that, much less achieve it.
    My "bad". You "are" so totally "right".
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  17. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    On reflection tho' perhaps the "menstrual pad" comment could offend some for a complicated variety of reasons. IOW, it may not have been just the indirect reference to "bodily functions" that irked some. It might also have been that the analogy raises the specter of equating what naturally happens to women and young girls as they mature as being somehow disgusting or equivalent to something that is negative and displeasing. However, I give Tim the benefit of the doubt, in that it is impossible to know for certain whether he consciously makes or intends that kind of negative association, simply because Ven's flower design struck him the way it did.
    It's all about CONTEXT. Listen, sperm passing between a man to seek out a woman's egg can be a beautiful and life-affirming. But I'd be grossed out if I saw it represented on a garment.

  18. #438
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    ^^ Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    I suspect that few designers consider that, much less achieve it.
    Yes true, but I think some do, obviously not always successfully. One designer in particular that comes to mind is Johnny Weir. I just remember Johnny saying even before he had the opportunity to start doing some designing, that he aspired to "make people feel beautiful."

    Ven seems more interested in making himself feel justified in his arrogance. But okay, maybe he will take a step back and learn to acquire some humility before the season is over.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 09-17-2012 at 03:46 AM.

  19. #439
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    "That could be his drag name: Origami Rose."

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    "That could be his drag name: Origami Rose."
    Auf wiedersehen, Origami Rose!

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