Figure Skating Champions SURVIVOR: Ladies GRAND FINALE!

[shady82]

Both really great skaters, though I voted for Kwan.

Yu-na produced easily the best Olympic ladies' FP in recent history. That program was phenomenal, technically and artistically. However, obviously, she didn't deliver often enough. Only in 2009 and 2010 did she win major titles and didn't make any major errors that would have prevented her from winning. In the other years, she either messed up the short or free. And while she is artistically a strong skater, her programs don't stack up to Kwan's. Giselle and Arirang in 2011 could've if she skated to her full potential.

I don't get why everyone is bashing Michelle for her lower technical ability. Michelle may not have done difficult combos like Irina or Tara, but her technical ability was nothing to be scoffed off about. Keep in mind that during her time, it wasn't the norm for most skaters to be attempting difficult triple-triples. Looking at her rivals throughout the championships - Chen, Butyrskaya, and Cohen generally didn't land triple-triples against her. Lipinski consistently did a 3r-3r. Slutskaya only landed difficult triple-triples in some of her programs, and often wasn't successful. I wouldn't count Hughes in, because she generally was not a rival. Arakawa landed a triple-triple-double in 2004, but otherwise didn't land the triple-triples all that often in major competition either.

Kwan's 1998 LP at Nationals is so far ahead artistically of everyone else, it more than compensates for her lack of triple-triples.

If Yu-na wins a couple more major titles, than I'd consider having her win such a competition.

[jatale]

I wonder how this poll would do internationally? I could be wrong, but while Michelle is clearly a HUGE star in the US she probably is much less so overseas. Who would be the contenders and finalists if a truly international poll was held?

[skatingfan5]

I wonder how this poll would do internationally? I could be wrong, but while Michelle is clearly a HUGE star in the US she probably is much less so overseas. Who would be the contenders and finalists if a truly international poll was held?

FSU is a site that is owned by someone living in Wales and while there may be a large number of members from the USA, posters here are from many countries around the world.

[Triple Butz]

I wonder how this poll would do internationally? I could be wrong, but while Michelle is clearly a HUGE star in the US she probably is much less so overseas. Who would be the contenders and finalists if a truly international poll was held?

you don't know much about fsu do you?

[berthesghost]

I wonder how this poll would do internationally? I could be wrong, but while Michelle is clearly a HUGE star in the US she probably is much less so overseas. Who would be the contenders and finalists if a truly international poll was held?

Exactly which seas are you talking about? The only place kwan has skated in the past 6 years is Korea.

I know her detractors love to claim she's a nobody in Europe, but I lived in Europe while she skated and everybody knew who she was. I'll never forget my first European championships. The city was plastered with posters of her and even the program had a huge picture of her on the back cover, as well as big posters in the rink lobby. Euros! Bitch wasn't even skating at the event and her image was everywhere.

[CantALoop]

I think Yuna really pushed the sport technically, and although Michelle did set the bar high for having a full repertoire of triples, Yuna made the 3-3 combo essential and was amazingly consistent with its technique. Yuna also managed to hold everything together and win her OGM decisively without any question.

That being said, I voted Kwan for pure sentimental reasons.

[chipso1]

It's no secret that Yu-Na had a better Olympic experience (performance & results-wise) than Michelle, but Kwan's career accomplishments are undeniable. Five world titles -- including two back-to-back -- and some of the greatest performances in skating history. Her longevity is unmatched in the modern era, and her performances will stand the test of time, IMO.

[bartek]

Exactly which seas are you talking about? The only place kwan has skated in the past 6 years is Korea.

I know her detractors love to claim she's a nobody in Europe, but I lived in Europe while she skated and everybody knew who she was. I'll never forget my first European championships. The city was plastered with posters of her and even the program had a huge picture of her on the back cover, as well as big posters in the rink lobby. Euros! Bitch wasn't even skating at the event and her image was everywhere.

Well, in Eastern Europe where I live, Irina is the most loved female star and Michelle can be considered a nobody here. In Japan, Mao is national darling along with Arakawa and Michelle isn't anywhere near their popularity. And in Korea, of course, the reign belongs to the one and only Queen Yu-Na.

[Proustable]

Michelle Kwan delivered when it counted on more occasions than Yu Na Kim.

Yu Na Kim delivered when it counted most, though. Kwan didn't.

Objectively, Kwan's logevity, impact, and success means she should win.

Subjectively, there's not a single Kwan program I would rewatch as much as Roxanne or Danse Macabre or Olympic Gershwin. There's not a narrative that thrills me more than the glorious climax of ladies figure skating of the 2006-2010 quad.

I've been voting subjectively and see no reason to change. I can neither deny nor quibble with Kwan's (eventual) victory here.

[Vagabond]

We've been seeing this all the way through these Survivor threads: people assume that when their favorite gets out its because other people are voting based on fandom and nationality rather than such criteria as competitive record, technical skills, presentation, length of career, and so forth.

Of course people's personal tastes inform their votes, but I have to say that the supposition that FSU is all a bunch of American bumpkins mindlessly voting for U.S. skaters is absurd. The Americans here didn't have any trouble voting out Meissner and Hughes in the first two rounds, and neither did anyone else. And one could very reasonably argue that Tara Lipinski should not have been voted out as early as she was, but that didn't stop many Americans here (myself included) from voting her out.

I do wonder if people who think that FSU is some vast AMERIKAN KONSPIRACY have ever actually known any Americans or even know which posters here are from the United States.

As for me, I voted for Kwan for the reasons judgejudy27 articulated so well in both this thread and the last one. If Kim had skated to the best of her abilities, she would be a five-time World Champion and the best skater EVAH. But she didn't, and she isn't, at least not yet. If she wins gold medals at the next three World Championships and the 2014 Olympics, then we can revisit the issue.

[iarispiralllyof]

I wonder how this poll would do internationally? I could be wrong, but while Michelle is clearly a HUGE star in the US she probably is much less so overseas. Who would be the contenders and finalists if a truly international poll was held?

Michelle is well known in China and within Chinese communities across the world. There were big crowds and press when she came to Hong Kong. She's also loved in Canada.

[Aren]

I voted for Yu-Na Kim!

[PeterG]

I wonder how this poll would do internationally? I could be wrong, but while Michelle is clearly a HUGE star in the US she probably is much less so overseas. Who would be the contenders and finalists if a truly international poll was held?

If my opinion is worth anything, I feel that we should let people from outside of North America use this website.

How do others feel?

[MrSatterwhite]

I've been trying my hardest to get my green card in time to vote on these survivor polls. It's been hard while living in Venezuela, but I'm almost there.Thanks for your support, Peter G.

[os168]

If my opinion is worth anything, I feel that we should let people from outside of North America use this website.

How do others feel?

OMG! I can't believe you are saying this!!! IMO your opinion is totally worthless!!

Everybody knows North America automatically means the whole world, and that people outside N.America are clearly inferior despite our superiority complex, knowledge overcompensation and exotic accents!

[lakewood]

FSU is a site that is owned by someone living in Wales and while there may be a large number of members from the USA, posters here are from many countries around the world.

True, but it is still NA-diminant site.

[berthesghost]

If my opinion is worth anything, I feel that we should let people from outside of North America use this website.

How do others feel?

No way! I like it just as it is: chan vs Evan in the men's poll, belbin&agosto vs shaelyn&victor in dance, david&jamie vs ina&zimmerman for the final two pairs and of course, Kwan vs joannie in the ladies final. If we let foreigners into the www, they'd bring all sorts of weird ethnic skaters who smell funny. Lambiel? Joubert? Fontana? Sounds like a bunch of stinky cheeses to me!

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Saying that Yuna Kim should win based on her higher tech abilities is like saying Shizuka Arakawa is a better skater than Peggy Flemming in that people forget Kwan began her senior year in 1993 and in many ways (with Tara and Irina) set the tech standard for nearly a decade. She was also skating in a vastly different judging system than Kim is and COP rewards risks much more than 6.0 ever did.

Also, from the 1995/1996 season to the 2003/2004 Kwan never failed to place at least 2nd in every competition she entered except for three occasions (1996 Centennial on Ice, 2001 Skate Canada, and the 2002 Olympics). Then in 2004 Worlds placed third after being second in the LP and 4th at Worlds 2005 under COP where she still placed third in the SP and LP with probably the worst LP performance of her Worlds career. I think Kwan's skating and style looked so effortless that many of her detractors are thinking that her accomplishments were also effortless.

As for Kim winning OGM and Kwan not, I'm just going to say it. Whether or not you think Tara should have won, Kwan skated very well and lost the gold due to a 6/3 judges' decision not due to Kwan faltering as she technically landed everything she planned. We've seen gold medalists win with much lesser performances than Kwan in Nagano.

There's a reason why Kwan was THE skater for all those seasons (and inspired a young Kim) an everyone knew that at her height and even afterwards one had to get through Kwan before they can win a major title that was for nearly a decade. Yu-na, meanwhile, only really dominated for two (the same as Irina really) thus far. If we're going by potential then Cohen should've been on this poll too. Too bad it's about what actually happen on the ice.

[Cheylana]

As for me, I voted for Kwan for the reasons judgejudy27 articulated so well in both this thread and the last one. If Kim had skated to the best of her abilities, she would be a five-time World Champion and the best skater EVAH. But she didn't, and she isn't, at least not yet. If she wins gold medals at the next three World Championships and the 2014 Olympics, then we can revisit the issue.

I also voted for Kwan, but I'm not at all convinced she would have won five World titles if she had won OGM in, say, 1998. That OGM has a way of sapping motivation and competitive fires...especially for American female skaters. They tend to and then I just don't see any reason to believe Michelle would have been any different, no matter what she likes to say. That is not meant to take anything away from Kwan's amazing accomplishments, but at the same time I'm inclined to cut YuNa some slack on not getting it done at 2010 and 2011 Worlds.

[judgejudy27]

Kim would have looked better taking time off though. She clearly wasnt prepared or trained for either the 2010 or 2011 Worlds and for a champion of her stature that is inexcusable IMHO. Whether all people agree with or not, she did do some damage to her reputation with her zombie-like efforts at those events. If it was too hard to come off the high of the Olympic Gold, it would have been fine to either retire or take some time off indefinitely. People would have understood. It is fine to not skate your best sometimes, nobody is a machine, but to show up barely practiced at all for such a major event when you are the biggest star is something Michelle and many past legends would never do. Either you want to compete or you dont.