View Poll Results: Who is the weakest link?

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  • Kazakova & Dmitriev

    45 26.32%
  • Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze

    2 1.17%
  • Shen & Zhao

    2 1.17%
  • Totmianina & Marinin

    27 15.79%
  • Pang & Tong

    90 52.63%
  • Savchenko & Szolkowy

    5 2.92%
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    I think people are underrating P/T. I voted for K/D.
    I agree. For me, many of the prs left are "sterile". I appreciate their achievements, but they leave me cold. I have always had a soft spot for P/T since I saw them in person at SA in 03. I find him so elegant...and she eventually ate and improved.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Then why are you discussing?

    S/Z never faced S/S at their best; Aliona and Robin hadn't yet hit their stride when S/Z retired the first time. Since by your logic wins only count if the other team is at or near peak form, clearly beating S/S in 2007 or in the Olympic season doesn't count.
    So either S&S were not ready yet and that is why they werent beating S&Z, then when S&Z come back they magically go into a slump, and magically return to their peak when S&Z leave again. Seems all too convenient. OK so when was their peak, 2008-2009 when they were usually winning despite wildly erratic performances, never doing clean long programs, and winning a Worlds with a lame performance like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAxTbMwnf6o

    Wow Shen & Zhou are sure lucky they didnt face peak S&S. For the record I am not even a S&Z fan. Fact is S&S even in their peaks years were having trouble beating teams like P&T and Z&Z who none of the greats, including even the much vilified T&M had any problem whatsoever beating everytime they met. Fact is S&S have never been on top except when there was no great teams to face.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    So either S&S were not ready yet and that is why they werent beating S&Z, then when S&Z come back they magically go into a slump, and magically return to their peak when S&Z leave again. Seems all too convenient. OK so when was their peak, 2008-2009 when they were usually winning despite wildly erratic performances, never doing clean long programs, and winning a Worlds with a lame performance like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAxTbMwnf6o

    Wow Shen & Zhou are sure lucky they didnt face peak S&S. For the record I am not even a S&Z fan. Fact is S&S even in their peaks years were having trouble beating teams like P&T and Z&Z who none of the greats, including even the much vilified T&M had any problem whatsoever beating everytime they met. Fact is S&S have never been on top except when there was no great teams to face.
    Many teams (in all of skating) have won golds because of weak fields including S/Z so that's a weak argument.

    In 2009-2010 S/Z were also given scores remarkably higher than what they deserved especially at the Olympics sp and fs. P/T really messed up in the short and it's too bad because it cost them an Olympic gold.

    Not to mention Ingo Steuer wasn't going to win coach of the year by setting his team back 6 months in an Olympic year by making them re-learn a new long program after one meltdown at TEB. They just could have put it behind them and move on with it and instead of trying the new "Out of Africa"

    I know it was a favorite of many but it also put most of their competitors six months ahead as far as being comfortable with the program, that's really important as far as I'm concerned was his biggest mistake as a coach.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    the only rules that ever apply are artibrarily made up on the spot to bolster your own argument. It's the primary rule of the interwebz logic has nothing to do with it
    I bow down before your superior logic and persuasion skills!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I find Savchenko & Szolkowy overrated and would have Totmianina & Marinin stay longer but it is clear I am in the minority on that. For me I can appreciate the sheer quality and near perfection of most of what T&M do both in elements (outside of the lifts and triple twist of course) and overall skating. I also appreciate their consistency doing such difficult programs with such precision and class in everything, and making it look easy.
    I also agree that T&M should be in the top 3. I think a clean Savchenko/Szokowy is superior to a clean T&M, because S&S have more complex programs, technically and choreographically, and do things with a high level of quality as well. But S&S hardly ever skate clean freeskates, and during the 2008-2009 competed against teams that weren't World Champion material, so obviously they dominated. I think S&S at their peak should challenge S&Z if clean, but of course S&S never skate clean.

    T&M have amazing quality in their elements and the quintessential Russian elegance. They always performed well and delivered triple salchows too. I remember their amazing Ave Maria SP at Worlds in 2005, which was performed to perfection and 'cast a spell' as Peggy Fleming said. IMO that performance was one of the best World SPs of the decade. On the other hand, their 2006 Olympic FP was hardly memorable.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    In 2009-2010 S/Z were also given scores remarkably higher than what they deserved especially at the Olympics sp and fs. P/T really messed up in the short and it's too bad because it cost them an Olympic gold.
    P/T messed up the short?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    P/T messed up the short?
    They got a one point music violation and got undermarked for the rest of the program so that Kawaguchi and Smirnov would still be in podium placements after the SP.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    P/T messed up the short?
    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    They got a one point music violation and got undermarked for the rest of the program so that Kawaguchi and Smirnov would still be in podium placements after the SP.
    They weren't under marked, they didn't perform as well as they could have regardless of the music violation-which is a stupid mistake at that level. If they had the one point added back in they still would had been in 4th place. The top three were tough to crack that every point was needed so it's too bad they gave up a couple of points.

  9. #29

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    I think P/T were seriously undermarked in the short, and should have won overall - it was never going to happen though.

    I never got the fuss over S/Z. They were very good but I can't see the 'magic' everyone else seems to.

    I liked Totmianina and Marinin which seems to be an even more unpopular thing to say.
    “What’s on the revengenda this evening?” – Nolan Ross

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by miffy View Post
    I liked Totmianina and Marinin which seems to be an even more unpopular thing to say.
    Burn her! Burn her!

    In hindsight, and having slagged them off their entire elligible career, I've gone back now and enjoyed some of their programmes.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by miffy View Post
    I liked Totmianina and Marinin which seems to be an even more unpopular thing to say.
    Unpopular, but I liked them, too. Still do.
    If this is to end in fire
    Then we will all burn together

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