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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Seeing Kwan move across the ice in many of her exhibitions make me rank her as one of the top in skating skills.
    I am actually surprised at the number of people who are ranking e.g. Kiira Korpi above her.

    There are very few female skaters who have the security and blade control that I've seen from Kwan. It's what made her Spiral so exquisite.

    I'm also a little surprised how low Asada has been ranked on several lists. Her blade dexterity and precision is incredible at times. The only reason I didn't list her higher is because other skaters have demonstrated greater speed (which she has clearly improved on recently.) She's also one of the few women who have attained Level 4 Steps.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    We've been through this on other threads, but you obviously don't know what "effortless" means. One important hallmarks of FS, which makes skating special and different from any other sport, is the ability to glide across a surface without looking like you're trying and without the quick or jerky muscle movements that you would see in a runner or sprinter on regular ground. When a skater is quickly pumping their back up and down and swinging their arms to and fro, you can clearly see the muscles at work and the effort required to gain momentum. That is the definition of laboriousness, not effortlessness.
    Although I am probably talking to a wall here, given that you have your own definition of "skating skills" that does not comport with that used by the ISU, I'm going to take another shot at this. There are people here, including the OP, who are interested in what the ISU thinks.

    Components with Explanations

    Skating Skills

    Definition: Over all skating quality: edge control and flow over the ice surface demonstrated by a command of the skating vocabulary (edges, steps, turns, etc), the clarity of technique, and the use of effortless power to accelerate and vary speed.

    Criteria:

    Balance, rhythmic knee action, and precision of foot placement
    Flow and effortless glide
    Rhythm, strength, clean strokes, and an efficient use of lean create a steady run to the blade and an ease of transfer of weight resulting in seemingly effortless power and acceleration.
    Cleanness and sureness of deep edges, steps, and turns
    The skater should demonstrate clean and controlled curves, deep edges, and steps.
    Varied use of power/energy, speed, and acceleration
    Variety is the gradation – some of which may be subtle
    Multi directional skating
    Includes all direction of skating: forward and backward, clockwise and counterclockwise including rotation in both directions.
    Mastery of one foot skating
    No over use of skating on two feet.
    By and large, though not entirely, "skating skills" are just what the term implies -- skills at manipulating the skate across the ice, and this is particularly true of "effortless glide."

    What goes on above the ankle does have some relevance to skating skill, particularly with respect to how well the skater balances his or her weight on the skates, as is shown in the videos to which TripleWallie linked upthread.

    I would agree that, above the ankle, Slutskaya could be very far from effortless, but that point relates to other program components, particularly these:

    Performance/Execution

    Definition: is the involvement of the skater/couple/teams physically, emotionally, and intellectually as
    they translate the intent of the music and choreography.

    Execution: is the quality of movement and precision in delivery. ...

    Criteria:
    ....

    Carriage

    Carriage is a trained inner strength of the body that makes possible ease of movement from the center of the body. Alignment is the fluid change from one movement to the next....

    Clarity of movement

    Clarity is characterized by the refined lines of the body and limbs, as well as the precise execution of any movement....

    Interpretation

    Definition: The personal and creative translation of the music to movement on ice. To reward the skater who through movement creates a personal and creative translation of the music. As the tempo binds all notes in time, the ability to use the tempos and rhythms of the music in a variety of ways, along with the subtle use of finesse to reflect the nuances of all the fundamentals of music: melody, rhythm, harmony, color, texture, and form creates a mastery of interpretation.

    Criteria:

    Effortless Movements in Time to the Music ....

    The ability to translate music through sureness of rhythm, tempo, effective movement, and effortless flow over the ice surface by: rhythmic continuity, awareness of all tempo/rhythm changes in a variety of ways....
    Anyone who wants to start a thread about the Performance/Execution and Interpretation elements, please go right ahead.
    Last edited by Vagabond; 07-28-2012 at 01:22 AM.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post

    I would agree that, above the ankle, Slutskaya could be very far from effortless, but that point relates to other program components, particularly these:
    1) Sarah Hughes, whom I referenced in my earlier post did not compete under the current rules you referenced.
    2) I never said Slutskaya had "poor" skating skills.
    3) I never mentioned "skating skills" in the post you quoted or the one that bartek quoted before it.
    4) In fact, I complimented Hughes and Slutskaya on their deep knee bend, good edges, and speed.
    5) What I was talking about was "ease of movement" which, under the current rules, is indeed a P/E component.
    6) It actually seems we agree so I have no idea what you're talking about, or why you assume you're talking to a brick wall.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    It actually seems we agree so I have no idea what you're talking about, or why you assume you're talking to a brick wall.
    Because of this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    First of all, no one said that we were using the "CoP" rules as the only guide, many of these skaters never even competed under that system. Though it may be spelled out under different CoP criteria, good utilization of ice surface and variation of movement patterns are indeed "skating skills."
    I have a feeling that you and I have each misunderstood things the other one dashed off and posted here. I'm sorry for my role in any confusion or hurt feelings.

    And, yes, I think we do actually agree, or would if we were sitting down chatting face-to-face.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post

    I have a feeling that you and I have each misunderstood things the other one dashed off and posted here. I'm sorry for my role in any confusion or hurt feelings.

    And, yes, I think we do actually agree, or would if we were sitting down chatting face-to-face.
    I can agree to that

  6. #106

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    And it would probably be a lot easier to reach agreement sitting down in front of the ice where the skaters are skating than relying on videos and memories of having seen different performances/practices live at different points in their careers.

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