View Poll Results: Who is the weakest link among these past champions?

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  • Michelle Kwan

    63 15.67%
  • Irina Slutskaya

    205 51.00%
  • Yuna Kim

    134 33.33%
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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    Well, to be fair, Kwan lost 1997 Worlds, 1998 Olympics, 1999 Worlds, 2002 Olympics, 2002 Worlds and 2004 Worlds--where she was the favorite at all of them--so I'm not so sure it's correct to say "queen Kwan tops all."
    1997 worlds: First time defending her title. Name one lady who has defended a world title since...it's a lot of pressure and she wasn't able to handle it but, to her credit, she made a mistake in the SP but had a very strong LP so it wasn't like she fell to pieces...

    1998 Olympics: Her performances there can't be categorized as "she gave it away" b/c she skated very well in both programs. I maintain it was luck of the draw that cost her gold here...

    1999 worlds: True, this was one she could have won but she was sick at that competition even though she wouldn't use her illness as an excuse. Stamina is an issue when you can't breathe...

    2002 Olympics: This is one competition that was hers to lose. If she skated her LP cleanly, there's no doubt in my mind she'd have won...

    2002 worlds: Coming off of the heartbreak of SLC I was shocked she even showed up. She wasn't perfect here but she turned in strong performances. Irina skated better.

    2004 worlds: She was not a favorite to win here. She hadn't competed on the GP all season long. Her performances were clean despite the low scores she received...again, that wasn't one she "gave away"...

    But on the whole, 9 times out of 10 if she was in a position to win a title Michelle would and given the amount of pressure she was under (nearly always being a favorite or expected to win), that is incredibly impressive and no other skater in recent memory has a success rate that high.



    Yu-Na hasn't been able to deliver at worlds as consistently from a combination of injury or circumstance but she was able to give the performance of her life at the biggest event of her life and, given the pressure she was under, that too is incredibly impressive. I definitely think Yu-Na has a chance to catch up to or surpass Michelle. Not in overall accomplishments; Yu-Na has said she won't compete past Soichi which basically gives her one more shot at a world title which would bring her total to only two BUT if she can snag another gold medal at the Olympics I think that might pull her ahead of Michelle b/c the weight of those two OGMs would be pretty heavy to ignore.

    I do agree that Yu-Na is putting herself on the line here. If she isn't able to deliver she will be tarnishing her record but that's the risk of coming back. In a way there is twice as much pressure this time around for her b/c people are expecting record-breaking performances every time. That's the double edged sword of success: If you do it once, anything short of doing it again is seen as a failure. She's got a very long road ahead of her and a lot to live up to...

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    While the sp was a 5-4 split in placements, I was always perplexed as to how/why three judges actually placed Sasha ahead of Irina in the sp.
    While I agree that Irina's tech was better, she skated that sp like a zombie. Never once making eye contact with the audience or putting any emotion into her elements. Kwan and Cohen were weaker technically but they lit up the crowd and performed the hell out of their routines. It is possible to lose the sp on presentation if you are seriously deficient, and for me, Irina was. After her amazing sp to Culture the previous season her "waiting in line at K-Mart" version of Schubert's Serenade was a real let down. Back bumping and tinkly muzak do not go well together.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    Well, to be fair, Kwan lost 1997 Worlds, 1998 Olympics, 1999 Worlds, 2002 Olympics, 2002 Worlds and 2004 Worlds--where she was the favorite at all of them--so I'm not so sure it's correct to say "queen Kwan tops all."
    Kwan was definitely not the favorite for the 2002 Worlds after losing to Slutskaya 5 times in a row that season. She rose to the occasion and skated her best or 2nd best LP of the season at Worlds despite not winning. It is also arguable whether Kwan was favored to win the 97 Worlds after losing to Lipinski twice in major events right before. She skated her best competition in awhile at Worlds, and her best LP of the season by far, once again rising to the occasion. She lost the 98 Olympics as the favorite but with a brilliant performance that would have won any other Olympic until 2010. It is also questionable if she was favored to win the 2004 Worlds, yes she beat Cohen at Nationals, but Cohen had dominated the international season except for the GP final.

    So the only events she lost as the possible clear favorite not skating well was the 99 Worlds (very sick and Butyrskaya skated lights out and shut out everyone anyway) and 2002 Olympics (incredible pressure, Olympics on home ice).

    She also won the 2000 and 2001 Worlds not being the favorite, and under immense pressure in the long program showing the clutchness of a champion.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    While I agree that Irina's tech was better, she skated that sp like a zombie. Never once making eye contact with the audience or putting any emotion into her elements. Kwan and Cohen were weaker technically but they lit up the crowd and performed the hell out of their routines. It is possible to lose the sp on presentation if you are seriously deficient, and for me, Irina was. After her amazing sp to Culture the previous season her "waiting in line at K-Mart" version of Schubert's Serenade was a real let down. Back bumping and tinkly muzak do not go well together.
    Plus her SP performances at the GP final and Worlds were way better than her Olympic one.

    I always laugh though at Peggy's desire for Slutskaya when it comes to artistry. She calls her Carmen in 2000 and her slow music ballerina like SPs her best artistic programs. She disses a program like her Don Quixote or her Culture In fact programs like that are the best vehicle for her skating. Her Carmen was a good attempt at improved artistry but boring and trivial at times and the ending was laughable, and her slow pretty ballerina like SPs arent the best vehicle for her since she is no ballerina on ice.

  5. #125
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    ^^I honestly think Peggy was trying to convince herself that Irina was artistic as a way to reconcile the marks the judges started giving her. I could see some improvements in Irina's "artistic expression" but the fact of the matter is Irina was in no way artistic. She was a powerhouse skater without a discernible smidgen of grace or elegance and when she tried to skate like an artistic skater, it just looked wrong. That's why her SP from 2006 is my fav from her. She wasn't trying to artistic or graceful; she showcased her speed and power and just motored through the program...I appreciated that a lot more than her attempts at trying to be something she wasn't.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Plus her SP performances at the GP final and Worlds were way better than her Olympic one.

    I always laugh though at Peggy's desire for Slutskaya when it comes to artistry. She calls her Carmen in 2000 and her slow music ballerina like SPs her best artistic programs. She disses a program like her Don Quixote or her Culture In fact programs like that are the best vehicle for her skating. Her Carmen was a good attempt at improved artistry but boring and trivial at times and the ending was laughable, and her slow pretty ballerina like SPs arent the best vehicle for her since she is no ballerina on ice.
    With Peggy, it was pretty much a knee-jerk reaction to say X-female-skater was really "feeling the music and holding out her moves longer" every time a program reached the slow section.

    ETA: Even today with Peggy out, I still swear I can hear her start her "This is where I see the improvement..." speech when a skater starts the slow section! True story. Is there a pill that can remove the Peggy Fleming voice from my head?
    Last edited by Triple Butz; 07-17-2012 at 05:32 PM.

  7. #127

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    Peggy had so much to offer as a skater, but so little of worth as a commentator. I could never reconcile the two

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    Is there a pill that can remove the Peggy Fleming voice from my head?
    Yes. Her name is Sandra Bezic. She's really quite a pill.


  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    I really hope that most of the people who voted Irina, cast their vote to Michelle for next round. Kim deserves to win IMO
    Yes, it is your opinion. Which you've stated repeatedly.

  10. #130
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    OMG do these polls last an entire year each before the next round!?!?

  11. #131

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    Less than three hours and fifteen minutes to go before the final round...
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    ^^I honestly think Peggy was trying to convince herself that Irina was artistic as a way to reconcile the marks the judges started giving her. I could see some improvements in Irina's "artistic expression" but the fact of the matter is Irina was in no way artistic. She was a powerhouse skater without a discernible smidgen of grace or elegance and when she tried to skate like an artistic skater, it just looked wrong. That's why her SP from 2006 is my fav from her. She wasn't trying to artistic or graceful; she showcased her speed and power and just motored through the program...I appreciated that a lot more than her attempts at trying to be something she wasn't.
    I agree that Totentanz was the best SP for Irina because, as you said, she just did what she had the best, power, speed and energy and it really worked. However, I like her interpretation of Serenade a lot. I don't think she was trying to be a ballerina on the ice. This program was also about power for me, even if the music was slow. It was about speed and command of the ice and this is what she showed at 2002 Olympics. You don't have to be slow when you're skating to slow music.

    Peggy wasn't tying to convince herself about Irina's presentation marks. She said that her Carmen was a big improvement for Irina's presentation just when the judges started to give Iriona high marks. And then next season, Peggy said that Don Quixote was a step backwards for Irina when compared to Carmen.

    Personally, I like Irina's Don Quixote from GPF because of a beautiful slow section when she "was feeling her music and holding her moves out loger". That choreography was possible because she didn't do a triple loop as she'd already landed two of them in combinations. Next season, Irina unfortunately changed that nice green dress she'd used at 2000 GPF to that horrible outfid she had at 2001 Worlds. Choreography of the program suffered from the fact she had do the solo triple loop.
    Last edited by bartek; 07-18-2012 at 12:39 AM.

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