Figure Skating Champions SURVIVOR: Men's Final Four

[kwanfan1818]

Probably the only way that's going to happen

[senorita]

^ Isnt this childish?, ok Yagudin didnt fell in his first Olys, that is good, Plushenko had a big fall and a silver medal. Every skater is different in how he handles pressure.

Plushenko did try 4-3-3, a single quad, two triple axels, one of them in the combo 3a-1/2l-3f in SLC, what exactly would satisfy you in order to outjumb Yags?

I dont think we need to compare their injuries, it is unfortunate facts when skaters dont compete healthy.

Btw poll has ended, keep the arguments for Dai/Lambiel

I ve read the peak age for a male skater is around 21-23. Chan in Sochi

[reflect]

I remember Dick Button commented at 2000 worlds, and he said something like "at the age of 17, you're physically strong and could possibly do anything." Being younger is not always an excuse. Even a 13-year-old Yagudin could beat both Kulik and Abt at his first junior worlds. By the way, at worlds 2000, Plushenko was second after the sp. both of them skated clean, and Yagudin won 8 votes out of 9 judges, a clear edge. Just like Tracey said: "what Alexei did that Plushenko did not do was he used his music, pushed it to the edge.." And that's always their difference.

For me, Yagudin is better than Plushenko in everything, musicality, better control on the ice, emotions, and even the jumps. Considering Yagudin left Alexei Mishin when he's only 18 and trained under Tarasova, who's never a technique coach, for 4 seasons. Plushenko was younger and trained under Alexei Mishin with his full attention for 4 years, and he just could not even out jump Yagudin in SLC. Their jumping ability were pretty equal by that time, both of them landed 4-3-3 in practice but never in competition, Yagudin landed 4t-1/2lp-3s in competition.

Speaking of injuries, Plushenko had a slight groin injury, which was announced by Alexei Mishin before the Olympics. Yagudin's hip problem was also pretty severe by that time, that kind of chronic hip injury one could not get just in one day. And someone said Plushenko fell in the sp because that's his 1st olympics and lack of experience. Ok, when Yagudin competed at his 1st olympics, he's only 17, and he did not fall on his first jump of the competition.

So in his 18, which is one more year than "can do everything", Yagudin lost to not only Kulik, but also Stojko, Candeloro, and Todd Eldredge. IMO, If we consider one on one rivalry winning, we should consider age as well, but I will suggest not to consider both of them.

I will not argue about something like Tracey's comment. Everyone keeps their opinion as "I think somebody is the best". But the following are some correction.

Plushenko landed 433 in 2003 GPF and 2003 World qualifying
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVplv_v4B4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVS554SM-dA

Yagudin landed 4t-3t, 4t-1/2lp-3s in 2001 Skate Canada (What a pity he fall on 3a. But the comb is interesting). And Plushenko landed 4T-3T-2Lo and 4T-3T in COR and GPF......now it's time to claim jump means nothing.

Speaking to Mishin, if Yagudin can get credit on jump because he left Mishin, I must give Plushenko credit on artistry or personal charm since he can get so many standing ovation and innocent audience's love while he has never left mishin .

Well, I can say in 1998, "a didn't fall in 1st jump yagudin" can only get #5 and in 2002 "a fall plushenko" can won silver.

Again, let's forget about age and injury. They are all in different ages and they all have injurys. In his book, Yagudin mentioned his hip pain in 2001 and 2002, which deteriorated and caused his retirement in 2003 (a big loss).
Plushy mentioned the foot and back pain in 2001. And in 2002, he had ankle and groin injury. He took shot for competition and give up Euro. I does not consider the injury light, but I consider it's his own problem, not anyone else's fault.

Next time I will claim Plushenko can win Lambiel because he is alway 2 year matured than the later

[reflect]

Wow, Plush off the podium is a surprise!

Well, he has to be kicked away from the podium, in one way or another

[unicorn]

^ Isnt this childish?, ok Yagudin didnt fell in his first Olys, that is good, Plushenko had a big fall and a silver medal. Every skater is different in how he handles pressure.

8 judges out of 9 is not a clear edge But I was wrong ab sp obviously.

Plushenko did try 4-3-3, a single quad, two triple axels, one of them in the combo 3a-1/2l-3f in SLC, what exactly would satisfy you in order to outjumb Yags?

I dont think we need to compare their injuries, it is unfortunate facts when skaters dont compete healthy.

Btw poll has ended, keep the arguments for Dai/Lambiel

Childish of not, I have no problem with that. Let those who read this post to judge. 8 judges out of 9 is not a clear edge, also no problem.

Plushenko did try 4-3-3, a single quad, two triple axels, yeah, he failed on that 4-3-3, with lots of mistakes. What a pity, otherwise Yagudin would do 4-3-3 too, and we would see a 4t-1/2-3s, then Scott Hamilton wouldn't say Yagudin was conservative. Anyway, Yagudin won even he skated conservatively at one of the most famous rivalries. People would remember that for a long time I guess.

Plushenko lost this round to Dai, but you see, it's always about Yagudin and Plushenko. I don't mind someone post more trash talking about Yagudin.

[senorita]

Yes I corrected my 8 to 9 judges but you quoted me first because I somehow substracted them and thought, one judge difference, sorry my bad

I believe it is different could have done than did 4-3-3 and 3a-3F sequence in Olympic games. And it is not like he splatted a la Buttle , he stepped out the last triple of 4-3-3, how mNy are those mistakes?
Yagudin didn't need to worry, it needed major upset for plushenko to win after sp, a la Hugues.

I don't think there is a post I trash talked yagudin, huh?But I can see flaws to him and plushenko, although we focus on plushenko mostly.

[reflect]

By the way, at worlds 2000, Plushenko was second after the sp. both of them skated clean, and Yagudin won 8 votes out of 9 judges, a clear edge.


If I am the one who is reading this post, it's easy to judge.
If A lost to B when both of them are clean, A is weaker than B in this round because a perfect A lost to a perfect B.
If A lost to B when A is not clean while B is. A is weaker than B in this round because A cannot be clean in this compitition while B can.
If A lost to B when A is clean and B is not. A is weaker than B in this round because even a clean A cannot beat an impefect B.
If A lost to B when both of them are not clean. A is weaker than B in this round because an imperfect A cannot beat an impefect B.
What's a meaningful conclusion!

By the way, at Olympic 1998, Yagudin was 4th after the sp. A clean Yagudin lost to a clean Todd Eldredge 9 out of 9 after SP, lost to Kulik 8 out of 9, and lost to Stojko 8 out of 9. 3 clear edge. And in 2000, Yagudin won is Yagudin won. To me it doesn't matter he won 5 to 4 or 9 to 0. The same as to the others.

[Cherub721]

Wow, Plush off the podium is a surprise!

It's the first time in 12 years.