View Poll Results: Who is the weakest link

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  • Ilia Kulik

    97 32.77%
  • Alexei Yagudin

    11 3.72%
  • Evgeni Plushenko

    56 18.92%
  • Stéphane Lambiel

    66 22.30%
  • Daisuke Takahashi

    66 22.30%
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  1. #81
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    ^It's true though; going on skating skills alone, Abt was better than Yagudin and Plushenko. If the criteria is to take away medals and jumping ability, then he's up there.

    I still think it would be interesting to do a non-WC/OGM survivor with Sandhu, Abt, Savoie, Klimkin, Abbot, etc. Any interest in that when this game is over?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    I like Lambiel..a lot. He has charisma and talent. I just happen to enjoy Dai more than any other skater on the planet..and have since about 2005. I find him to be totally mesmerizing.
    The same for me. Only the other way round .

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I still think it would be interesting to do a non-WC/OGM survivor with Sandhu, Abt, Savoie, Klimkin, Abbot, etc. Any interest in that when this game is over?
    Yes, certainly. I haven't seen enough from those skaters (except Abbott) to vote myself yet, but it will be very interesting to see how other people rate them. I'll also try to watch more videos of their performances then.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    ^It's true though; going on skating skills alone, Abt was better than Yagudin and Plushenko. If the criteria is to take away medals and jumping ability, then he's up there.
    Abt : slow with a lot of 2-foot skating, but very good looking.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    ^It's true though; going on skating skills alone, Abt was better than Yagudin and Plushenko. If the criteria is to take away medals and jumping ability, then he's up there.
    ?!? No that absolutely is not true. Especialy regarding Yagudin. Yagudin did everything better than Abt. Much better choreography, better footwork, more musicality, better performance skills, more speed and power, more polished and much better lines (Tracy Wilson said she loved the rawness of Abt's skating but it was jerky and very unrefined, I concur), way stronger jumps obviously. Compare their interpretations to the Gladiator in 2001, Abt's even if he did the jumps looked like an amateurish program next to Yagudin's masterful work and bigger than life performances. I dont even see the better skating skills really, but even if he did it wouldnt make him better, that is like saying Yuka Sato is better than Michelle Kwan since her skating skills are better (which they are, even though Michelle's are also excellent).

    Why on earth take away jumping ability either. It is one thing to say take away medals and just look at the skater, but actual jumping ability (not just consistency, although that too) is a huge part of being a "better" skater. Are we now saying skating skills are all that matter to who is a better skater, and jumps are in some seperate category that have no value to the level of a skater, only results, while every other aspect of the sport- spins, footwork, interpretation, line, expression, spirals, are in some netherland out of nowhere.

    Would a clean Abt ever beat a clean Yagudin or Plushenko? Of course not. Would anyone ever saw he was robbed or deserved to either. Again, of course not. The 2002 Europeans is not an example as Yagudin was very subpar in his LP there, which is the only reason Abt who gave the performance of his life that day had some wuzrobbed cries, although to most who know the sport still not even merited ones.


    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Abt : slow with a lot of 2-foot skating, but very good looking.
    Exactly, he wasnt that good period. I think some are confusing his prettiness for his skating ability somehow. I dont even see how lunging long crossovers (often jerky and clunky) represent great skating skills either.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 07-11-2012 at 06:30 PM.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I think a lot of people simply don't merely take accomplishments as the be all and end all of a skater's being. If you see past the medals, it's not hard to see why many people think Takahashi and Lambiel are better skaters than Plushenko.
    And also definetely better than Yagudin, in my opinion.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    ?!? No that absolutely is not true. Especialy regarding Yagudin. Yagudin did everything better than Abt. Much better choreography, better footwork, more musicality, better performance skills, more speed and power, way stronger jumps obviously. I dont even see the better skating skills really, but even if he did it wouldnt make him better, that is like saying Yuka Sato is better than Michelle Kwan since her skating skills are better (which they are, even though Michelle's are also excellent).
    I adored Yagudin back in the day, but he most certainly does not have better musicality than Alexander Abt.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    I adored Yagudin back in the day, but he most certainly does not have better musicality than Alexander Abt.
    Like I said compare their interpretations of the Gladiator in 2001 and Abt's is a complete joke next to Yagudin's. One makes you feel like you are out on the battlefield literally, as Beverly Smith a Canadian reporter said you could see blood out there while he performed it, while Abt's would have been a good time for a bathroom break. Even Stojko's Gladiator program that year was more interesting, good grief. Abt better musicality, LOL! When did Abt ever have programs that were performed like Yagudin's Gladiator in 2001, Yagudin's Winter in 2002, Yagudin's Man In the Iron Mask in 2002, Yagudin's 1999 short program.

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    ?!? No that absolutely is not true. Especialy regarding Yagudin. Yagudin did everything better than Abt. Much better choreography, better footwork, more musicality, better performance skills, more speed and power, more polished and much better lines (Tracy Wilson said she loved the rawness of Abt's skating but it was jerky and very unrefined, I concur), way stronger jumps obviously.
    What exactly was so impressive about Yagudin's footwork? All those three turns and mohawks? Granted, the demand of the more complex turns was much lower but I never thought Alexei had naturally quick feet. I thought even Plushenko had better footwork, lighter and quicker on his feet. And as it turned out, Plushenko didn't really have an easy time adapting to the new demand of COP style footwork, and I have a feeling that Yagudin most likely would have an even harder time. OTOH, Abt had some of the best edgework back in the days. Long, deep and sweeping. He would probably do best under COP out of the three.

    Yes, Yagudin had some great, audience friendly programs. But in retrospect I really wouldn't call them masterpieces the way I'd call Abbott, Savoie, Lambiel, or Takahashi's programs masterpieces.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Like I said compare their interpretations of the Gladiator in 2001 and Abt's is a complete joke next to Yagudin's. One makes you feel like you are out on the battlefield literally, as Beverly Smith a Canadian reporter said you could see blood out there while he performed it, while Abt's would have been a good time for a bathroom break. Even Stojko's Gladiator program that year was more interesting, good grief. Abt better musicality, LOL! When did Abt ever have programs that were performed like Yagudin's Gladiator in 2001, Yagudin's Winter in 2002, Yagudin's Man In the Iron Mask in 2002, Yagudin's 1999 short program.
    Why should that be the basis of comparison? Yags was lovely, but he didn't have much of a range when it came to musical interpretation, and a lot of his programs were quite similar thematically. Of course, what he did do he did very well; as I said, I'm a fan. But when it comes to musical interpretation and range, Abt wins. And his programs at 2002 Euros were fabulous. The end.

  10. #90
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    There are some hilarious people on this forum. Actually people arguing Abt > Yagudin in musicality or skating ability. Freaking hilarious. I am not even going to bother any further into this, as I am going to die laughing soon if I can continue reading anymore of this.

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    There are some hilarious people on this forum. Actually people arguing Abt > Yagudin in musicality or skating ability. Freaking hilarious. I am not even going to bother any further into this, as I am going to die laughing soon if I can continue reading anymore of this.
    What exactly was so much more musical about Yagudin than Abt? Have you seen his 2001worlds SP?

  12. #92
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    more polished and much better lines
    You're kidding right? Yes Abt could be all over the place, but at his best, Yagudin wishes he could do a camel spin with the positions and speed that Abt does them here, and I've never seen Yagudin move with as much freedom or flow as Abt does in the footwork sequence following that spin.

  13. #93
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  14. #94
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    Abt was definitely underrated but one of the best, your making me miss him
    Abt had the best edges , lines and camel spins ever and his skating he is like gliding in the air.
    oh and the never ending legs are to die for !!!!

    now for the votes ! more votes for False God Yagudin !!!

  15. #95
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    Me my fav program of Yagudin is Borken arrow, maybe an unpopular opinion, but I just love it. Especially Skate Canada or Skate America version, I dont remember. And Revolutionary etude and of course Winter. I also think Tosca suited him well.
    But if you look at his repertoire he didnt have such range of music choices or performance style. The movie scores always carry away the audience but I like the above programs more.. I liked MITM but it is the music that gives goosebumbs, I liked it even from KVDP this season and Bazarova/Larionov last season.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Why on earth take away jumping ability either. It is one thing to say take away medals and just look at the skater, but actual jumping ability (not just consistency, although that too) is a huge part of being a "better" skater.
    Well that was my point, because someone had brought up the idea that if you take away Plushenko's medals and his jumps, he is not that good. I wouldn't take that out of the equation, but if you do, then you get results like Abt being better than Plush.



    Exactly, he wasnt that good period. I think some are confusing his prettiness for his skating ability somehow. I dont even see how lunging long crossovers (often jerky and clunky) represent great skating skills either.
    Abt's crossovers jerky and clunky? We seriously are not watching the same skater then.

    And I am sooooooo sick of people saying that Abt is only liked because of his looks; how come they never say that about Joubert and Kulik? One of my favorite skaters is Alban Preaubert, so no.

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    And I am sooooooo sick of people saying that Abt is only liked because of his looks; how come they never say that about Joubert and Kulik? One of my favorite skaters is Alban Preaubert, so no.
    I've lost track of how many times I've read about Joubert getting points and winning over fans because he's good-looking and the male version of Kiira Korpi. Far more often than I've heard the same about Abt, perhaps because Joubert is still competing and has had better results in his career.

    I watched Abt's Rach 2/3 program tonight for the first time in ages. Fabulous - though I'll always have a soft spot for the Artsakh SP from that season, as it was the first time I really noticed him. I also watched his Gasolina EX from the 2006 Red Square gala, further proof that he can skate to anything and make it look good

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Well that was my point, because someone had brought up the idea that if you take away Plushenko's medals and his jumps, he is not that good.
    You seem to be referring to me, but you are misrepresenting what I said. I said that Plushenko's competitive record was largely due to the fact he is such a good jumper and that if you took away his jumps and looked at the rest of his performances, he's much better than Stojko but not on the same level as Takahashi or Lambiel. I think that's a fair assessment, but how much emphasis anyone places on any particular factor is up to that person.

    I'm certainly not ignoring jumping ability or competitive record. Those are the main reasons why I didn't vote for Stojko before Urmanov or Eldredge. However, I don't think that Plushenko's jumping ability and competitive record necessarily mean he should stay in longer than Lambiel or Takahashi. I haven't made up my mind yet, and I won't until the next round starts.

  19. #99
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    Imho Abt was overrated, most of all by his (female???) fans, who fell for his innocent milk-boy image. They prefer to see him in an always victim/hero-role. Although probably more talented than Yagudin and Plushenko, in fact, most of the time, he failed because lack of discipline, diligence PLUS too much and ...
    Last edited by Zokko!; 07-11-2012 at 09:42 PM.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    And I am sooooooo sick of people saying that Abt is only liked because of his looks; how come they never say that about Joubert and Kulik? One of my favorite skaters is Alban Preaubert, so no.

    Well even Kulik himself said something like "If you are a good skater, that's good. If you are a good looking good skater, that's great."

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