Figure Skating Champions SURVIVOR: Ladies QUARTER-FINAL (WITH POLL)

[bartek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cUJsMgAVV8#t=6m24s

And sometimes, less is more

The idea of the choreography had nothing to with this, lol. It was about dealing the cards...

Well, I prefer Irina feeding the chickens or powering through her Totentanz (I love this program, pure speed and power) than Michelle doing completely nothing in her Tosca and Bolero. In those two programs there is just nothing in between jumps besides crossovers. Aranjuez has some choreography and the spiral and footwork went nicely with the music as well as the final spin but still if you compare it to Joannie's version, Michelle's Aranjuez is ridiculous.

[UGG]

What is so ridiculous about it? It was not choreographed for COP. She landed 6 triples with two lutzes. It did not have the intricate choreography like her earlier programs, but she was 11 years into her senior career and skating on an eventual career ending injury. It also won her the US Championship and her 5th world title. It was no Lyra-that I agree with that. But it was a nice program and she skated it with a lot of emotion and feeling-especially when everyone had written her off after the Olympics. Actually that year, she went undefeated.

[Macassar88]

So, in other words, you loved her 4 most iconic programs and didn't like two of her less iconic programs

I actually hear the most about Song of the Black Swan out of all her programs.

[berthesghost]

I actually hear the most about Song of the Black Swan out of all her programs.

Wow. Interesting. Who are you talking to? this was the first program that fans on mkf really started complaining about, and it all kinda went downhill from there for many. Lyra and rach2 are really her two most signature programs for not only most fans but Journalists etc... Followed closely by Salome and taj.

[Macassar88]

Wow. Interesting. Who are you talking to? this was the first program that fans on mkf really started complaining about, and it all kinda went downhill from there for many. Lyra and rach2 are really her two most signature programs for not only most fans but Journalists etc... Followed closely by Salome and taj.

Hmmm interesting

Anyway, there are a lot more programs that I didn't like by Michelle but I didn't want to get chased out of this forum, so I didn't list them.

Anyway, I prefer Mao's skating to Michelle's, but I voted for Mao because her accomplishments don't match up to those of Michelle.

[berthesghost]

The idea of the choreography had nothing to with this, lol. It was about dealing the cards...

Well, I prefer Irina feeding the chickens or powering through her Totentanz (I love this program, pure speed and power) than Michelle doing completely nothing in her Tosca and Bolero. In those two programs there is just nothing in between jumps besides crossovers. Aranjuez has some choreography and the spiral and footwork went nicely with the music as well as the final spin but still if you compare it to Joannie's version, Michelle's Aranjuez is ridiculous.

I just don't care for morosov. 6.0 or cop. I wouldn't exactly call what this past worlds silver medalist did "packed with difficult transitions and beautiful choreographic moves". Wilson otoh especially what he was doing for joannie were so coped out with 1,001 transitions they were almost Victorian clutter, no table with out at least 2 tablecloths and a lace doiley on top. Kwan sold the shyte out of ananjez and Tosca, and those wins we're all about her and how she performed them. Choreo, music,transitions etc... They almost didn't exist.

Anywho, the poll is about the skaters, not "which skater most fired her talented choreographer to hire a talentless hack?" gold medals aside, morosov will never be nichol or Wilson. Never!

[briancoogaert]

The idea of the choreography had nothing to with this, lol. It was about dealing the cards...

Well, I prefer Irina feeding the chickens or powering through her Totentanz (I love this program, pure speed and power) than Michelle doing completely nothing in her Tosca and Bolero. In those two programs there is just nothing in between jumps besides crossovers. Aranjuez has some choreography and the spiral and footwork went nicely with the music as well as the final spin but still if you compare it to Joannie's version, Michelle's Aranjuez is ridiculous.

If you still want to compare Irina and Michelle, don't worry, Michelle won Worlds with Aranjuez while Irina was not here, and in 2005, Irina won over Michelle.

[skateboy]

Oh, come on. Remember her brilliant portrayal of Bullwinkle the moose (complete with antlers)?? I thought it was a pretty bold artistic statement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bwz2zA5sYE#t=3m24s

Or her classic LP to "Where have all the chickens gone?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBSI...elated#t=1m53s

I have NO idea what you mean.

[falling_dance]

I have NO idea what you mean.

I can see the chicken-feeding in the second clip, but have some trouble turning the arms into moose antlers in the first.

[bartek]

I just don't care for morosov. 6.0 or cop. I wouldn't exactly call what this past worlds silver medalist did "packed with difficult transitions and beautiful choreographic moves". Wilson otoh especially what he was doing for joannie were so coped out with 1,001 transitions they were almost Victorian clutter, no table with out at least 2 tablecloths and a lace doiley on top. Kwan sold the shyte out of ananjez and Tosca, and those wins we're all about her and how she performed them. Choreo, music,transitions etc... They almost didn't exist.

Anywho, the poll is about the skaters, not "which skater most fired her talented choreographer to hire a talentless hack?" gold medals aside, morosov will never be nichol or Wilson. Never!

No matter what one would say negative about Michelle or her programs you'll always find a way to diminish it. So, it's actually bad to have many intricate and difficult transitions between your jumps like Joannie, Yu-Na Kim, Patrick Chan or Daisuke Takahashi have? Yes, that MUST be something bad because Kwan just landed her jumps with crossovers in between in her Tosca and won US Nationals so this really MUST be the right way to skate. Without anything between your elements. Ok, Joannie's program is so terrible, she has a difficult exit almost out of every jump. And why did she have so much choreography there? Hmmm, there was much less choreography going on in Michelle's Aranjuez, that must have been right.

[kwanette]

No matter what one would say negative about Michelle or her programs you'll always find a way to diminish it. So, it's actually bad to have many intricate and difficult transitions between your jumps like Joannie, Yu-Na Kim, Patrick Chan or Daisuke Takahashi have? Yes, that MUST be something bad because Kwan just landed her jumps with crossovers in between in her Tosca and won US Nationals so this really MUST be the right way to skate. Without anything between your elements. Ok, Joannie's program is so terrible, she has a difficult exit almost out of every jump. And why did she have so much choreography there? Hmmm, there was much less choreography going on in Michelle's Aranjuez, that must have been right.

6.0 vs IJS, apples and oranges

[UGG]

No matter what one would say negative about Michelle or her programs you'll always find a way to diminish it. So, it's actually bad to have many intricate and difficult transitions between your jumps like Joannie, Yu-Na Kim, Patrick Chan or Daisuke Takahashi have? Yes, that MUST be something bad because Kwan just landed her jumps with crossovers in between in her Tosca and won US Nationals so this really MUST be the right way to skate. Without anything between your elements. Ok, Joannie's program is so terrible, she has a difficult exit almost out of every jump. And why did she have so much choreography there? Hmmm, there was much less choreography going on in Michelle's Aranjuez, that must have been right.

Yes, exactly. I agree

Anyway why are you comparing a 6.0 choreographed program to COP?

Use Bolero and we have a discussion.Somehow, with that very boring program, Kwan ended up third in the LP behind Irina and Sasha. Her short program was great that year-Sparticus. I think that was also third right?

[berthesghost]

No matter what one would say negative about Michelle or her programs you'll always find a way to diminish it. So, it's actually bad to have many intricate and difficult transitions between your jumps like Joannie, Yu-Na Kim, Patrick Chan or Daisuke Takahashi have? Yes, that MUST be something bad because Kwan just landed her jumps with crossovers in between in her Tosca and won US Nationals so this really MUST be the right way to skate. Without anything between your elements. Ok, Joannie's program is so terrible, she has a difficult exit almost out of every jump. And why did she have so much choreography there? Hmmm, there was much less choreography going on in Michelle's Aranjuez, that must have been right.

Sorry. No clue wtf you're talking about.

[Triple Butz]

I can see the chicken-feeding in the second clip, but have some trouble turning the arms into moose antlers in the first.

I was just poking fun, of course. (This poll isn't that serious, just a fun game for the off season!) But I did always find that section to be a total WTF moment. Irina pumps a fist with one hand, presses her thumb to her face with her fingers extended on the other as she rounds the corner. I never saw anything quite that silly again until Rachael Flatt tried to dance her way down Bourbon St.

[antmanb]

I was just poking fun, of course. (This poll isn't that serious, just a fun game for the off season!) But I did always find that section to be a total WTF moment. Irina pumps a fist with one hand, presses her thumb to her face with her fingers extended on the other as she rounds the corner. I never saw anything quite that silly again until Rachael Flatt tried to dance her way down Bourbon St.

I raise you a Leonova chicken spiral

[falling_dance]

I was just poking fun, of course. (This poll isn't that serious, just a fun game for the off season!)

I am committed to these off-season game threads. Nothing, not even my Best Ladies' Double Axels Poll, has more importance for me.

[Triple Butz]

I am committed to these off-season game threads. Nothing, not even my Best Ladies' Double Axels Poll, has more importance for me.

[UGG]

The only World or Olympic program from Irina that ever brought out any type of emotion from me was her 2005 worlds long program. With everything she had been through with her illness, making her comeback, skating in her home country, and skating the way she did...it made me tear up. Her best moment of her career, IMO. I was very happy for her that she won, and it helped my disappointment for Michelle not making the podium for her 10th consecutive year. I was hoping she could pull it off.

It was a nice moment in figure skating history.

[kwanatic]

I actually hear the most about Song of the Black Swan out of all her programs.

I agree with berthes; you need to talk to some different people. Michelle's programs were the strongest from 1996 up until 2001. SOBS was a great program but it didn't have the drama that some of her previous programs had. If you don't like Dream of Desdemona...I'd like to say there's something seriously wrong with you but I won't b/c people are entitled to their opinions. My opinion is you're crazy if you didn't like it, but to each his own.

I wasn't a huge fan of Michelle's Scheherazade though it was a nice program. Her post SLC programs were nowhere near as well-developed choreographically, but the performances were some of her best. The ease and emotion of Aranjuez and the power of Tosca make them stand out even though they weren't as strong in terms of choreography. Past SLC, I really felt like Michelle was biding her time waiting on Torino to roll around. She didn't want to drop out of competing but she didn't want to go all-out either, so there was less effort put forth during those years.

Her first version of Bolero was pretty good but by the time she made it to nationals and worlds that year, it'd been stripped down to basically nothing. I don't like that one at all...it's the only one of her LPs I say "pass" to. Spartacus OTOH was very nice; great utilization of the music.

No matter what one would say negative about Michelle or her programs you'll always find a way to diminish it. So, it's actually bad to have many intricate and difficult transitions between your jumps like Joannie, Yu-Na Kim, Patrick Chan or Daisuke Takahashi have? Yes, that MUST be something bad because Kwan just landed her jumps with crossovers in between in her Tosca and won US Nationals so this really MUST be the right way to skate. Without anything between your elements. Ok, Joannie's program is so terrible, she has a difficult exit almost out of every jump. And why did she have so much choreography there? Hmmm, there was much less choreography going on in Michelle's Aranjuez, that must have been right.

Joannie's Aranjuez was great but it is very tough to compare an IJS tailored program to a 6.0 program b/c the set of rules behind them are extremely different thus the requirements are different. Undoubtedly Joannie's was harder b/c of all of the transitions, footwork, etc. but then again it had to be. Even though Michelle's version wasn't as complicated b/c it was created under a different set of criteria, it was still a nicely done program that was skated perfectly several times. Sure, there could have been more transitions and intricacies in the choreography but under the system it did its job well.

I just find it a bit pointless to compare 6.0 to IJS b/c it really is apples and oranges in terms of everything: jumps, spins, transitions, footwork, etc. Unlike IJS, there was no set value under 6.0...there were minimum requirements (ex: rotations in a spin as opposed to rotations and positions) but past that the system was open to interpretation by the skaters whereas under IJS, skaters have to adhere to a strict set of guidelines in order to gain credit. I just find it tough to compare them...

I raise you a Leonova chicken spiral

Don't forget the kisses and hip wiggles...

[l'etoile]

Of course the difficulty of choreography/program should count but when we are talking about "champions," I think the more proper reasoning would be to see the dominance and influence on skating, the sport itself, and on audience, you. That simple. Just my opinion.