View Poll Results: Who is the weakest link among these past champions?

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  • Lu Chen

    144 38.61%
  • Michelle Kwan

    21 5.63%
  • Irina Slutskaya

    43 11.53%
  • Mao Asada

    120 32.17%
  • Yuna Kim

    45 12.06%
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  1. #101
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    Yes so lowballed she won a medal at every Worlds she was in where she skated decently, and received a gifted 2nd Olympic medal she didnt deserve (1998).

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Yes so lowballed she won a medal at every Worlds she was in where she skated decently, and received a gifted 2nd Olympic medal she didnt deserve (1998).
    If Lulu didn't deserve the bronze in Nagano then who do you think deserved it over her? Surely not Butyrskaya - she was really stiff legged throughout her LP and had quite a lot of saved jumps in the programmes. The version of Otonal that she skated in Nagano was nowhere near the standard she would eventually skate it at 99 worlds.
    Last edited by antmanb; 07-03-2012 at 09:08 AM.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    As I have said to you in another thread, problems with your analyses are always assuming that judges get it right and all competition results are valid. I don't agree to this, as I have always thought judeges get it right less than 50 percent of the time.

    Even with all the lowballing Chen Lu received through out her career, she still managed to win 2 olynmpic medals and 4 world medals. So take that.
    So if judges only get it right less than 50% of the time and if you're applying that "logic" fairly, then Lu Chen should only have 1 olympic medal and 2 world medals.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    So if judges only get it right less than 50% of the time and if you're applying that "logic" fairly, then Lu Chen should only have 1 olympic medal and 2 world medals.
    I think you would fit right in as an ISU judge.
    How about becoming one instead of being a moderator?

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    I think you would fit right in as an ISU judge.
    How about becoming one instead of being a moderator?
    I will when you post something positive about Mao Asada or Miki Ando.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I have learned to never count anyone out, particularly someone as tough as Mao is mentally. Irina had two really bad years in her career. Nobody could have predicted her performance at the 2005 worlds, after her illness. Nobody could have predicted her strong performances in 2000 after she missed making the Russian world team in 1999.
    Ita.

  7. #107
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    I think if Mao had competed during times of between Kwan(peak&healthy) and Kim, she would have been the dominant skater of the era. Winning 02 or 06 OGM.
    Because during that period judges were not harsh for the wrong edge&underrotation and there was no consistent 3-3 skater and Mao is more complete skater than Irina etc.
    So Mao should go to ROUND 10 at which top 3 contend.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    So if judges only get it right less than 50% of the time and if you're applying that "logic" fairly, then Lu Chen should only have 1 olympic medal and 2 world medals.
    Or...... she should have 4 oly medals and 8 world medals!

    But I'm fine with the 50% rule. I'm ok with nagano, but would have given her silver in Lillehammer. 91, 92, and 95 are fine w me, but she should have placed higher in 93, 96 and 97. See... 50% right.

  9. #109
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    I seriously cant believe that Mao has so many votes... How could anyone think that Mao is weaker then Chen Lu, it is ridiculous... Yeah Mao didnt skate well the past 2 seasons, but neither did Michelle in her last seasons. Everyone skates better when they are young, and Mao is a prime example. When she won her first Worlds, i was amazed that after the terrible fall at the beginning that she could skate the rest of the program pretty much perfect to win the gold. She has landed 3-3 combinations countless of times, much more than Lulu, michelle and even Slutskaya. I know there are a lot of people that love michelle, but after lulu, it is either Michelle or Irina that should go

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    I seriously cant believe that Mao has so many votes... How could anyone think that Mao is weaker then Chen Lu, it is ridiculous... Yeah Mao didnt skate well the past 2 seasons, but neither did Michelle in her last seasons. Everyone skates better when they are young, and Mao is a prime example. When she won her first Worlds, i was amazed that after the terrible fall at the beginning that she could skate the rest of the program pretty much perfect to win the gold. She has landed 3-3 combinations countless of times, much more than Lulu, michelle and even Slutskaya. I know there are a lot of people that love michelle, but after lulu, it is either Michelle or Irina that should go
    That's not true. Irina, Maria, Akiko and Carolina are just a handful of examples of skaters who peaked later than earlier in their careers. It's harder to start off successful when you're young and maintain your competitive position as you age, but it is possible. Mao hasn't done that and I honestly think that's the main reason she's getting so many votes. As gorgeous as her skating is she hasn't been a strong competitor these last few years. She appears to be on the upswing but until we see some evidence of it, we have to go by what she's done up until this point. And IMO 3-3s and 3xs aren't enough to save you on a poll that includes both 6.0 and COP skaters. Different times, different requirements...you have to look at the body of work, both abilities and results. Mao gets top marks in abilities but her results aren't as strong...

    The current state of her skating is why I'm considering eliminating her this round. At best, she's been an erratic competitor since Vancouver. Mao hasn't been on the podium in two consecutive world appearances...no other skater on this poll had back-to-back appearances at worlds without a medal. Unfortunately, when looking at the overall picture, that puts her on the chopping block...

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Yes so lowballed she won a medal at every Worlds she was in where she skated decently, and received a gifted 2nd Olympic medal she didnt deserve (1998).
    Like I said, we already know that you hate Lulu to death...

    Anyways, the thing that makes it so hard is that we don't know how the rest of Mao's career will play out. We know how Lulu's did, but Mao isn't finished so it's hard to say who's better than who.

  12. #112
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    ^^Exactly. This poll should have two winners IMO: Best 6.0 skater and Best IJS skater.

    Michelle wins best 6.0 skater with Irina as the runner-up...
    Yu-Na wins best IJS skater with Mao as the runner-up...

    Poll over! Can we do something else now?

    Seriously though, this damn poll isn't over for another 3 days. Why are the voting periods so long? Can we end it tonight and start the next round?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    I will when you post something positive about Mao Asada or Miki Ando.
    Let's try to make a compromise... How about if I throw shit at my favorite skaters? I would be much easiler for me.

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    I seriously cant believe that Mao has so many votes... How could anyone think that Mao is weaker then Chen Lu, it is ridiculous... Yeah Mao didnt skate well the past 2 seasons, but neither did Michelle in her last seasons. Everyone skates better when they are young, and Mao is a prime example. When she won her first Worlds, i was amazed that after the terrible fall at the beginning that she could skate the rest of the program pretty much perfect to win the gold. She has landed 3-3 combinations countless of times, much more than Lulu, michelle and even Slutskaya. I know there are a lot of people that love michelle, but after lulu, it is either Michelle or Irina that should go
    LMAO um no.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    I would give ! to her Lutz.
    And I would give e to Michelle's lutz.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    is right! In 9 tries, Irina only won worlds twice. Kwan is a 5 time WC, because the judges prefer Irina.
    Sorry, but this makes no sense to me. Either you have a full set of 6 different triples or you don't. But in your eyes, if Irina leaves out the 3x, she still has a full set. A full set for her that is. But if Mao leaves out the 3z, she doesn't have a full set, even if it is a full set for her. And if she does two 3x, which is the hardest jump or all, but Irina does a 3t and 3s, the two easiest jumps, then Irina has harder tech content? Say what?!?! What about 98 when Irina was doing two 3/3s instead of 2 3z because the 3z had gone MIA for her? So, Irina losing the 3z is ok, but Mao losing the 3z in unforgivable? The way COP is now, they are pressured to leave out unsure jumps. This was not the case during Irina's time, and Mao is hardly Laura Lipisto, or even Caro Kostner. She's the only woman on this list with a 3x and surely that must count for something.
    OMG, did you even read what I wrote? Ever since Irina won GPF 1999-2000 she was clearly favoured over Michelle by the judges. 2000 and 2001 Worlds were her to take. Irina usually won even if they both made mistakes. Look at the GPF in 2000-2001 and 2001-2002.

    Irina NEVER lost her lutz throughout her whole career so your point is totally irrelevant. Mao didn't include both lutz and salchow at some point (when she went to Tarasova). Irina always had full set of triples besides axel.

    At this point it's clear for me that Lu Chen should go. I don't understand how anyone can vote Mao off. She is technically superior to Lu Chen, artistically they are comparable and Mao has a lot more accomplishments. Besides Mao has also beautiful line and stretch. Chen's spirals and spins were terrbile. Mao wins also in terms of skating skills, she has superior flow and edging.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    I seriously cant believe that Mao has so many votes... How could anyone think that Mao is weaker then Chen Lu, it is ridiculous... Yeah Mao didnt skate well the past 2 seasons, but neither did Michelle in her last seasons. Everyone skates better when they are young, and Mao is a prime example. When she won her first Worlds, i was amazed that after the terrible fall at the beginning that she could skate the rest of the program pretty much perfect to win the gold. She has landed 3-3 combinations countless of times, much more than Lulu, michelle and even Slutskaya. I know there are a lot of people that love michelle, but after lulu, it is either Michelle or Irina that should go
    TOTALLY AGREE

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    Like I said, we already know that you hate Lulu to death...
    Who is this "we", you have been given the power to speak for all. I dont hate Lu Chen, in fact I like her, and defended her in many of the previous rounds. The fact I acknowledge she is outclassed by the others on this group, and dimiss the false notion she was robbed of being a 4 or 5 time World Champion by politics which seems to be the line of defense being used against these more accomplished and dominant greats (the only one to go to), in no way infers I hate her. It just means I am not clueless to reality.

    Mao's career is already much better than Lu's. What happens from here is irrelevant.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    ^^Exactly. This poll should have two winners IMO: Best 6.0 skater and Best IJS skater.

    Michelle wins best 6.0 skater with Irina as the runner-up...
    Yu-Na wins best IJS skater with Mao as the runner-up...

    Poll over! Can we do something else now?

    Seriously though, this damn poll isn't over for another 3 days. Why are the voting periods so long? Can we end it tonight and start the next round?
    I mostly agree, but I would give Irina the runner up in the IJS skater to Yu Na as well. She was killing it for about 15 months when COP first started, and her Worlds LP had her triple not been discounted would been about 136, which is higher than Mao's PB, and to achieve a 70 short program without a triple-triple in 2006 (and the score inflation has alreayd been discussed in other threads) is insanely good.

  20. #120
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    Damn, I should've voted for Mao just to annoy the Mao übers...

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