View Poll Results: Who is the weakest link among these past champions?

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  • Lu Chen

    144 38.61%
  • Michelle Kwan

    21 5.63%
  • Irina Slutskaya

    43 11.53%
  • Mao Asada

    120 32.17%
  • Yuna Kim

    45 12.06%
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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    It's amazing that the gap between Lu and Mao is always around 20.
    Really!

    current state
    Chen : 140
    Mao : 120

    Amazing.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    How many of them pulled off 7-triple programs? Michelle did it at least 10 or 11 times. Kim and Slutskaya maybe twice and Mao...did she ever? I'm not discounting the difficulty of those three you mentioned, but being well rounded, consistent, and staying on your feet has to count for something.

    Michelle Kwan hit at LEAST 6 triples in every freeskate at worlds from her debut in 1995 until 2004 when she hit 5 which is the same total amount of triples as Yuna's best freeskate at Worlds. Name any other woman who could hit 6 (or 7) triples at Worlds for 9 years in a row. For that reason, Michelle Kwan is simply unmatched as a competitor in my mind.
    Irina may not have performed a clean seven triples program as often as Michelle because usually she just attempted 6 triples what was fair enough to win for her. AFAIK Irina had three seven triples programs in her career and all of them are totally unreachable by Kim, Kwan and even Asada technically.

    GPF 1999-2000 with 3Lz+3Lo and 3S+3Lo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SXO6s3MCDw

    2001 Russian Nats with 3Lz+3Lo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V97gZ2GZq7Q

    Worlds 2005 with 3Lz+3Lo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBSI97Vuw8

    None of Michelle's programs compare to those technially. Soem of Asada's programs with triple axel and two triple-triples can be compared though but still Asada didn't include all kind of triples.

    Besides, Irina skated CLEANLY in the free skate about 15 times in her whole career just about the same as Michelle. That's big consistency.

  3. #243
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    One thing this poll does, is fully exposes uberdom among certain posters.
    Last edited by RumbleFish; 07-06-2012 at 02:04 PM.

  4. #244

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy03 View Post
    more succes and consistency yeah right, so kim getting the gold in vancouver makes her the better skater overall?????
    Not at all, where in my post did I even mention the Olympics? I doubt you'll bother replying, since you didn't bother replying to the last message in a previous thread where I proved you wrong too

    Overall all in their senior careers Yuna was more consistent and had more success. That's pretty much factual when you look at the results and protocols.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy03 View Post
    one competition speaks for their whole career, and ability? that's a really narrow view, Mao jump technique is the same jump technique that has given her a dosin of titles and let her be the first woman ever to land 3 3A in the same competition
    Ok, so one competition where Yuna wins isn't allowed to count for Yuna, but the only time Mao lands three triple axels in one competition (the same competition no less) is allowed to count

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy03 View Post
    as well as gave her the ability to make her technical content much higher then any of her competitiors! it's also the same jump technique that made her do programs with TWO 3-3 and 3A,
    Can you post a link to the protocols that show Mao landing two 3/3s and 3A because I cannot recall a single programme where this happened, unless you are counting that programme she did at nationals when she was 11 (maybe 12) and seriously under-rotated the 3/3s and 3A.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy03 View Post
    and as far as i remember it's the same jump technique that let her include all the tripple! and when looking beyond that her intrance, air positioning, height, and landing it's all perfectly done!
    Again, please post a link to the protocls that show she has done a programme where she landed all the triples in one programme because I cannot recall a single competition where that happened.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amy03 View Post
    if Kims technique was better then Asadas why have I never seen her include multipple 3A's, as well as several 3-3 in the same performance? due to lack of ability or lack of courage? or maybe both!
    Well i've never seen Asada include multiple triple axels as well as several 3/3s in the same performance either you keep pretneding that she does, but that's simply not true. If it is, please post the link to the protocls that show this.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartek View Post
    Irina may not have performed a clean seven triples program as often as Michelle because usually she just attempted 6 triples what was fair enough to win for her. AFAIK Irina had three seven triples programs in her career and all of them are totally unreachable by Kim, Kwan and even Asada technically.

    Except her 2005 Worlds LP, the other performances include cheated 3/3.
    Michelle Kwan won 2001 WOrlds, with Irina skating a better LP than her Russian Nats.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    Let's leave her alone. Must have had something really bad for dinner.
    I guess multiple dinners in a row...

  7. #247
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    2007 Worlds FS has pre-rotation on the Triple Axel. Rules changed after 2006-2007 season too.

    Anyway Mao Asada's 2007 GPF FS is undoubtedly the most difficult program performed by a women. One can argue the negative GOEs on jumps all they want or point to ridiculous supposeable two foot skating all they want. Name one skater that could perform that program?

  8. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartek View Post
    She broke the Zayak rule so that can't count as a seven triple programme, three of the same triple is illegal she didn't get credit for it at the competition.

    Also the GPF 3/3s were not the best quality - the 3Lp on the end of the lutz had a good 1/3 or a turn on the landing, and the triple loop she did on the end of the salchow landed right up on the toe, and she a one rev camel spin on the toe pic on the landing. She stood them up but they were not good quality.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    She broke the Zayak rule so that can't count as a seven triple programme, three of the same triple is illegal she didn't get credit for it at the competition.

    Also the GPF 3/3s were not the best quality - the 3Lp on the end of the lutz had a good 1/3 or a turn on the landing, and the triple loop she did on the end of the salchow landed right up on the toe, and she a one rev camel spin on the toe pic on the landing. She stood them up but they were not good quality.
    Kind of sad considering that if she had done another triple toe or something before the double loop, she probably would have had the WR score until Yuna came along and broke all those records.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingercrush View Post
    Anyway Mao Asada's 2007 GPF FS is undoubtedly the most difficult program performed by a women.
    Ita. Also according to the protocals, she did get the jumps ratified; she got negative GOE on some of them but they were still counted as fully rotated jumps.

  11. #251
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    Though if Ito and Harding were transported to now who knows what those two skaters could do. Ito of course could do a Double Loop-Triple Loop which seems crazy difficult to me. Harding had a formidable loop. I guess that era just didn't call for triple-triple combinations involving a loop.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingercrush View Post
    2007 Worlds FS has pre-rotation on the Triple Axel. Rules changed after 2006-2007 season too.
    It was also blatently two footed, but some judges neglected it and didn't deduct accordingly.

    Anyway Mao Asada's 2007 GPF FS is undoubtedly the most difficult program performed by a women. One can argue the negative GOEs on jumps all they want or point to ridiculous supposeable two foot skating all they want. Name one skater that could perform that program?
    It was certainly one of her better skates as a senior, but it was only one point better than Kim's FS with a fall on an under-rotated 3loop.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post


    It was certainly one of her better skates as a senior, but it was only one point better than Kim's FS with a fall on an under-rotated 3loop.
    Her loop isn't marked as underrotated.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    I guess multiple dinners in a row...
    Perhaps she happens to be a chronic bad cook.

  15. #255
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    It's also interesting to see Kim taking a risk with the triple loop during the 2007-2008 season (something she never did or didn't really need to do again after that season). It speaks to the level of difficulty that both girls were aiming for that season.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Michelle Kwan won 2001 WOrlds, with Irina skating a better LP than her Russian Nats.
    LOL what planet are you on. Her performance at Russian Nationals was much better.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Not at all, where in my post did I even mention the Olympics? I doubt you'll bother replying, since you didn't bother replying to the last message in a previous thread where I proved you wrong too


    (something is wrong, i can't quote right so i will just writte my name beside my answers)


    amy: you know i only bother replying when it isn't stupid, ridicouloes and ignorant quesion that are asked or stated, but i will make an exception this time!



    Overall all in their senior careers Yuna was more consistent and had more success. That's pretty much factual when you look at the results and protocols





    amy: Mao has won every title (worlds,4cc,gpf) several times yuna hasn't (with the exception of the olympics) beside that they both have a dosin of medals so i really don't see where you get the idea that there is a big difference in terms of succes!




    Ok, so one competition where Yuna wins isn't allowed to count for Yuna, but the only time Mao lands three triple axels in one competition (the same competition no less) is allowed to count



    amy: you should reread my post cause you seriously seem to have missed the point, let me repeat myself yuna ONLY has one title more then Mao, that in itself doesn't make her a better skater!



    Can you post a link to the protocols that show Mao landing two 3/3s and 3A because I cannot recall a single programme where this happened, unless you are counting that programme she did at nationals when she was 11 (maybe 12) and seriously under-rotated the 3/3s and 3A.



    amy: I am pretty sure you know how to find the protocols yourself, so maybe you should trouble yourself a bit and get it! but if you were a bit clever you wouldn't need it, looking at the score should confirm it, but if that doesn't make you content then go get the protocols!


    Well i've never seen Asada include multiple triple axels as well as several 3/3s in the same performance either you keep pretneding that she does, but that's simply not true. If it is, please post the link to the protocls that show this.



    amy: you know one thing i realised after this whole discussion is that when people don't want to look at reality nothing will make them accept it!

    so if it makes your ego feel better, just continue to pretend that Mao never did several 3A in the same program, she hasn't landed several 3-3 and a 3A in the same program... it just never happened, right

    (by the way does anyone know to quote right, something is wrong )
    Last edited by Amy03; 07-06-2012 at 03:45 PM.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartek View Post
    AFAIK Irina had three seven triples programs in her career and all of them are totally unreachable by Kim, Kwan and even Asada technically.


    Worlds 2005 with 3Lz+3Lo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBSI97Vuw8
    Ever heard of Elaine Zayak?

    I would add this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKvX8U9WH9g Slutskaya, Kim, and Asada have never landed 7 triples in a world or olympic competition which is worth noting IMO.
    Last edited by Triple Butz; 07-06-2012 at 04:23 PM.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy03 View Post


    I am sorry to dissappoint you but Mao Asada has pulled many 7-tripples program that includes a 3A and 3-3 and most other jumps in combination too, let me show you a few of them:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ8LXKlFjUI
    The first two jumps were both double-footed
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpZGFBDYc2w
    The sal was double footed

    Good for her in 2007/2008, though! That makes two seven triple programs.
    Last edited by Triple Butz; 07-06-2012 at 04:29 PM.

  20. #260

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy03 View Post
    Ok, so one competition where Yuna wins isn't allowed to count for Yuna, but the only time Mao lands three triple axels in one competition (the same competition no less) is allowed to count


    amy: you should reread my post cause you seriously seem to have missed the point, let me repeat myself yuna ONLY has one title more then Mao, that in itself doesn't make her a better skater!
    I do read your posts but you are either too stupid to make your poitns clearly or purposefully miss the points that are raised. Mao landed three triple axels in one competition just once, not multiple times, but you seem to think the fact she achieved it once means that she's to be worshipped in some way. This i do not understand whatsoever.



    Can you post a link to the protocols that show Mao landing two 3/3s and 3A because I cannot recall a single programme where this happened, unless you are counting that programme she did at nationals when she was 11 (maybe 12) and seriously under-rotated the 3/3s and 3A.


    amy: I am pretty sure you know how to find the protocols yourself, so maybe you should trouble yourself a bit and get it! but if you were a bit clever you wouldn't need it, looking at the score should confirm it, but if that doesn't make you content then go get the protocols!
    You are not providing the protocols because you can't find one to prove your point. You seem to have followed her career more closely than I have so I was genuinely asking you to provide links to the protocls that show her landed two 3/3s and a 3A in the same programme because I cannot remember her doing so. Repeating the same thing over and over again does not prove your point. Refusing to provide a link to protocols also makes me think you looked but did not find a single competition where this happened.

    Resorting to personal insults also shows that you cannot prove what you are asserting. Also the highlighted section above does not make any sense, looking at absolute scores does not show you what someone has landed in the comeptition. I have to ask myself if you even understand the first thing about figure skating.


    Well i've never seen Asada include multiple triple axels as well as several 3/3s in the same performance either you keep pretneding that she does, but that's simply not true. If it is, please post the link to the protocls that show this.

    amy: you know one thing i realised after this whole discussion is that when people don't want to look at reality nothing will make them accept it!

    so if it makes your ego feel better, just continue to pretend that Mao never did several 3A in the same program, she hasn't landed several 3-3 and a 3A in the same program... it just never happened, right
    Perhaps English isn't your first language and you did not phrase your statement quite correctly. You said that she landed two 3As and several 3/3s in the same programme. That means two triple axels and more than one 3/3 combination. I think Mao has only done one or two programmes with two 3As and neither had even one 3/3 combination let alone more than one. I ask you to link to a protocl that shows this in order to prove your point, and I'm willing to concede that I am wrong if you can. The fact you tell me to look up the information myself, I think goes a long way to proving that I am right and you are, in fact, wrong.

    But by all means keep repeating the same factually incorrect things to see if you can make anyone else belive it.

    Mao has achieved some truly amazing technical feats, and trying to over state what she has done simply diminishes her already great acomplishments.

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