Figure Skating Champions SURVIVOR: Ladies ROUND 8

[berthesghost]

Right, somebody had to and the judges were the ones who lived up to that statement giving rina all her wins and favouring her over Michelle .

is right! In 9 tries, Irina only won worlds twice. Kwan is a 5 time WC, because the judges prefer Irina.

Of course I meant full set of triples without the axel. The fact that Mao had to put two triple axels because she couldn't do the lutz and didn't want to do the salchow (or whatever problem she had with salchow) doesn't really show her in good light. Irina didn't have to leave out any triple throuout her whole career.

Sorry, but this makes no sense to me. Either you have a full set of 6 different triples or you don't. But in your eyes, if Irina leaves out the 3x, she still has a full set. A full set for her that is. But if Mao leaves out the 3z, she doesn't have a full set, even if it is a full set for her. And if she does two 3x, which is the hardest jump or all, but Irina does a 3t and 3s, the two easiest jumps, then Irina has harder tech content? Say what?!?! What about 98 when Irina was doing two 3/3s instead of 2 3z because the 3z had gone MIA for her? So, Irina losing the 3z is ok, but Mao losing the 3z in unforgivable? The way COP is now, they are pressured to leave out unsure jumps. This was not the case during Irina's time, and Mao is hardly Laura Lipisto, or even Caro Kostner. She's the only woman on this list with a 3x and surely that must count for something.

[judgejudy27]

The next 2 rounds will be predictable as well. Chen is clearly going this round, and Asada next. Kim, Kim, Slutskaya, the predictable final 3 is where the fireworks will really begin, and nobody knows what will happen there. I predict the ubers of all 3 will come out of the droves though. It will be interesting which the Kwan ubers will choose to attack first Slutskaya or Kim. Will they stand up for Slutskaya and make a united front for the Kwan-Slutskaya era, or will they instead push hard to get rid of whom many of them refer to for years as the "overrated" Slutskaya. Likewise the Kim ubers between Slutskaya and Kwan, neither whom she competed with directly, and probably doesnt inspire the same passion in them as the wars vs Asada or even Ando do.

[UGG]

The next 2 rounds will be predictable as well. Chen is clearly going this round, and Asada next. Kim, Kim, Slutskaya, the predictable final 3 is where the fireworks will really begin, and nobody knows what will happen there. I predict the ubers of all 3 will come out of the droves though. It will be interesting which the Kwan ubers will choose to attack first Slutskaya or Kim. Will they stand up for Slutskaya and make a united front for the Kwan-Slutskaya era, or will they instead push hard to get rid of whom many of them refer to for years as the "overrated" Slutskaya. Likewise the Kim ubers between Slutskaya and Kwan, neither whom she competed with directly, and probably doesnt inspire the same passion in them as the wars vs Asada or even Ando do.

I will be voting for Kim over Slutskaya.

Anyway...bye bye Mao.

[berthesghost]

or... maybe people will just continue to vote how they truly feel, and others will continue to freak out that somebody might actually have a different opinion, so accuse them of cheating.

Anywho, where are all of these insane hordes of Kimbots that people insist exist? Only a piddly 20 votes and Mao could be gone today! Come on insane hordes of Kimbots, get to it! . I know you exist because I read it on FSU and everyone knows FSU is only filled with gospel truth!

[kwanette]

or... maybe people will just continue to vote how they truly feel, and others will continue to freak out that somebody might actually have a different opinion, so accuse them of cheating.

Anywho, where are all of these insane hordes of Kimbots that people insist exist? Only a piddly 20 votes and Mao could be gone today! Come on insane hordes of Kimbots, get to it! . I know you exist because I read it on FSU and everyone knows FSU is only filled with gospel truth!

[mtnskater]

Irina Slutskaya.
I admire her qualities, but compared to the others, her skating lacks of lightness, grace, and she was not technically that superior.

Agree!

[allezfred]

Mao's competitive career for all intents and purposes is over. She is a zombie of her former self at this point, and I could see her suffering the indignity of even missing her own countries Olympic team for 2014, especialy with Ando now back.

You heard it here first folks! judgejudy has a great knack of predicting exactly the opposite of what actually happens.

[Alex Forrest]

You heard it here first folks! judgejudy has a great knack of predicting exactly the opposite of what actually happens.

Don't know about that, but I'm in JJ's corner. I don't think the next two years will benefit Mao. She had her best years four and five years ago. This will end in a very ugly manner for her.

[Vash01]

Don't know about that, but I'm in JJ's corner. I don't think the next two years will benefit Mao. She had her best years four and five years ago. This will end in a very ugly manner for her.

I have learned to never count anyone out, particularly someone as tough as Mao is mentally. Irina had two really bad years in her career. Nobody could have predicted her performance at the 2005 worlds, after her illness. Nobody could have predicted her strong performances in 2000 after she missed making the Russian world team in 1999.

[berthesghost]

True that! I used to call Irina The Terminator. Just when you thought you were finally rid of her, she'd come back even stronger.

[blue_idealist]

Mao's competitive career for all intents and purposes is over. She is a zombie of her former self at this point, and I could see her suffering the indignity of even missing her own countries Olympic team for 2014, especialy with Ando now back.

Kim's doesnt have to be over, in fact if she gets her act together she could easily win the 2013 Worlds and 2014 Olympics which IMO would elevate her career even above Kwan's if she pulls it off, but if she comes back like she did in pitiful display at the 2011 Worlds where despite nearly winning over an abysmal field she looked like she had trained about 1 week only and was going through a half assed practice run through in competition, she might as well not bother.

I agree with you about the worry that Mao will miss her own Olympic team. If Ando comes back, one of Ando, Asada, Murakami or Suzuki will have to stay home.

Honestly can't see Kim winning the 2014 Olympics though, unless she makes a huge comeback in 2013, but I really just can't picture that happening either. The 2014 Olympics is so wide open, anyone else could win.. even Kostner! That would be crazy!

[berthesghost]

Honestly can't see Kim winning the 2014 Olympics though, unless she makes a huge comeback in 2013, but I really just can't picture that happening either. The 2014 Olympics is so wide open, anyone else could win.. even Kostner! That would be crazy!

ITA the 2014 is wide open and just about anyone can win. Thus, I believe that counting out Kim makes absolutely no sense at all. The last 3 WCs are Mao, Miki and Caro... all of whom have been at it longer than Kim and all of whom have had much worse meltdowns. Much worse. Kim's disasterous post OGM downward spiral has resulted in two silver medals at worlds. Now, if you want to say that the old guard will be outskated by new baby ballerinas, or that a Russian will be heavily favored, maybe.., we'll see. But predicting that grandma Miki will make her 3rd Oly team, or that grandma Caro will win on her 3rd try, but younger, stronger, more talented Mao and Kim will be shyt outa luck because they are so over... come'on

[Cheylana]

Voted for Lu Chen. I can see the argument for voting for Mao, but I feel Mao pushed the technical edge more with her triple axel and triple-triples. She has been a little unlucky to have been under the downgrade/flutz police's microscope these last few years, which caused a number of her jumps to disappear for the time being. Lu would not have that second Olympic bronze had that kind of scrutiny been in place in 1998. Also, Mao has better spins.

[Macassar88]

True that! I used to call Irina The Terminator. Just when you thought you were finally rid of her, she'd come back even stronger.

for OGM at Sochi!!!

[judgejudy27]

for OGM at Sochi!!!

She probably would have a better shot than Mao at this point.

[RumbleFish]

I just don't understand why people are voting out Lu Chen over Mao Asada.

They both have similar caliber of acheivements, but Lu Chen fought uphill battle all the way coming from a weak federation. On the contrary, Mao Asada collected her medals receiving one gift after another.

There is a huge gap in quality of their respective accomplishments, IMO.
Mao Asada should be voted out.

[Macassar88]

She probably would have a better shot than Mao at this point.

At least she can do a proper lutz.

[judgejudy27]

I just don't understand why people are voting out Lu Chen over Mao Asada.

They both have similar caliber of acheivements, but Lu Chen fought uphill battle all the way coming from a weak federation. On the contrary, Mao Asada collected her medals receiving one gift after another.

There is a huge gap in quality of their respective accomplishments, IMO.
Mao Asada should be voted out.

They dont have similar achievements. Mao has 2 World titles. Lu has one. Mao has won the Grand Prix final twice. Lu never has. Mao has an Olympic silver. Lu does not. Mao was also forced to miss an Olympics and Worlds she probably would have won (or atleast 1 of the 2) based on the stupid age rules Kwan and Chen never had to deal with. Also if you are going to point out that there was no GP final before the 95-96 season, what I just pointed out more than negates it.

Mao was a much more dominant skater and bigger threat in her time, despite in the end playing second fiddle in her era to Yu Na Kim. I look at the measuring stick of skaters in the Kwan era as their records vs Kwan. Lu Chen never beat Kwan again at the 95 Worlds. Similar to how Butyrskaya and Cohen almost never beat Kwan. The skaters who often beat the great Kwan like Slutskaya and Lipinski were the real forces in that era besides Kwan herself. Similarily the skaters who often the beat the queen of the COP era Yu Na Kim a number of time, Mao Asada, and Ando who did it only twice but both times at Worlds, are the best skaters of this era besides Kim. If you can never beat the best skater of your era you dont belong in the top 3 or 4 skaters of that era either.

[briancoogaert]

At least she can do a proper lutz.

I would give ! to her Lutz.

[RumbleFish]

They dont have similar achievements. Mao has 2 World titles. Lu has one. Mao has won the Grand Prix final twice. Lu never has. Mao has an Olympic silver. Lu does not. Mao was also forced to miss an Olympics and Worlds she probably would have won (or atleast 1 of the 2) based on the stupid age rules Kwan and Chen never had to deal with. Also if you are going to point out that there was no GP final before the 95-96 season, what I just pointed out more than negates it.

Mao was a much more dominant skater and bigger threat in her time, despite in the end playing second fiddle in her era to Yu Na Kim. I look at the measuring stick of skaters in the Kwan era as their records vs Kwan. Lu Chen never beat Kwan again at the 95 Worlds. Similar to how Butyrskaya and Cohen almost never beat Kwan. The skaters who often beat the great Kwan like Slutskaya and Lipinski were the real forces in that era besides Kwan herself. Similarily the skaters who often the beat the queen of the COP era Yu Na Kim a number of time, Mao Asada, and Ando who did it only twice but both times at Worlds, are the best skaters of this era besides Kim. If you can never beat the best skater of your era you dont belong in the top 3 or 4 skaters of that era either.

As I have said to you in another thread, problems with your analyses are always assuming that judges get it right and all competition results are valid. I don't agree to this, as I have always thought judeges get it right less than 50 percent of the time.

Even with all the lowballing Chen Lu received through out her career, she still managed to win 2 olynmpic medals and 4 world medals. So take that.