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  1. #981
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    So my previous post this summer is proven wrong. I never thought Murray would win a Slam. But oh well, congrats. I was very happy for him. He might just use this to start a bloodfest in the next slams. All it takes is one win and you get on a roll. That is unless you are Andy Roddick and never deserved a major EVER. Hmmph.
    Last edited by Alex Forrest; 09-12-2012 at 01:01 AM.
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    Now that Murray has one, which male player is now the best not to have a slam? Tsonga? Ferrer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehudi View Post
    Now that Murray has one, which male player is now the best not to have a slam? Tsonga? Ferrer?
    I say Ferrer or Berdych.

  4. #984
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    Tsonga is the best at times and the worst at times, with apologies to Dickens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehudi View Post
    Now that Murray has one, which male player is now the best not to have a slam? Tsonga? Ferrer?
    If you mean current players only it would be Soderling since he hasnt officialy retired yet, and since he played last year I guess technically he is still a present player. Berdych and Tsonga even before Ferrer. No matter how consistent Ferrer is he has never won a Masters, never made a slam final, and is virtually useless vs the top guys apart for Murray on clay, and pre 2011 Djokovic on clay. Berdych and Tsonga have each won a Masters, made a slam final, and beaten big names in big matches many times over. Soderling beating Nadal to make a French Open final, and beating Federer to make it the very next year, is something else though.

  6. #986
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    ANDY!!!! WOOOOHOOOO!!!!



    I literally had to run to the bathroom after the Award Ceremony, when I got out Dad asked what the score was and I told him that Andy had finally won a GS!! He had a hard time believing it as there was no Banshee Screech of Joy from the Basement. As I told him, I was too choked up to do anything but cry for about two minutes.

    What a Classic that was. Wow!!! Now *that* was a Championship Final!!!

    I laughed at Mary Carillo saying to Andy how the bagpipes would be playing in every town in Scotland tonight, but as Dad said it's more than likely true. Along w/the Scotch Whiskey flowing.

    Congratulations Andy and here's to many more!!!

  7. #987
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    ^I...erm...thought it was a pretty shit match

    Anyway, congrats Andy. Not really a fan but it's nice to have a British winner. Now lets get the hyperbole from the press

    Good for the game to have a different winner

  8. #988
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    Finallist at Wimbledon, Olympic gold and now Grand Slam winner. It's been a fantastic summer for Andy Murray. BBC Sports Personality of the Year is going to be seriously interesting.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  9. #989
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    Finallist at Wimbledon, Olympic gold and now Grand Slam winner. It's been a fantastic summer for Andy Murray. BBC Sports Personality of the Year is going to be seriously interesting.
    Definitely!

    Congratulations Andy, not really a fan (of even tennis actually!) but lovely news to wake up to especially after watching the Team GB Victory Parade yesterday
    Dont Hate! Gyrate!

  10. #990

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    What a great match,

    Over the moon for Andy!
    Lendl almost smiled when Andy thanked him.

    Novak was gracious in defeat,

  11. #991
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    This final was tiring to watch...

    Congrats to Andy and his fans, great summer.

    And damn, Nole, you know you overachieved when the following season with a Slam, two other finals and a semi looks like a shit year!

  12. #992

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    Congras to Murray.
    “Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.” William Shakespeare

  13. #993
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    What a great match,

    Over the moon for Andy!
    Lendl almost smiled when Andy thanked him.

    Novak was gracious in defeat
    Ha ha, re Lendl cracking a smile. He's a tough guy, but I think likely a pussycat underneath it all. I always loved Lendl from the very beginning of his career when everyone else, including fans, journalists and commentators, not to mention Connors and McEnroe were always down on him. It was fun witnessing Lendl persevere and sock it to them all! He's a great champion and apparently a pretty good coach too, somehow in tune with the "Muzzard" (as Murray is called by former coach, Brad Gilbert). (BTW, re Murray vs. Berdych, the wind done in Berdy, especially on his serve, with a generous helping from Murray as well of course -- While Berdy is not the most sportsmanlike of players, I like the way he plays and I hope he will eventually find it within himself to win Slams; also a shout-out to Rafa ... please get well soon and come back strong).

    This match was great in how Murray persevered and how Nole hung around taking advantage of opportunities. These guys have known each other for a long time (since age 11, and they were born the same year, 7 days apart) and have great respect for each other, so I wonder if that factored in a little bit psychologically in how the match went back and forth. For me, this wasn't the greatest match I've ever seen -- that goes to Borg/ McEnroe 1981 Wimbledon; also Rafa/ Roger 2008 Wimbledon; a few of the Agassi vs Sampras matches, Connors vs McEnroe, and Connors' great comeback matches at the 1991 U.S. Open, also the groundbreaking Ashe vs. Connors 1975 Wimbledon match, (the Evert/ Navratilova battles, and some of the Williams sisters best matches against stellar opponents other than themselves).

    Fed against Murray at Wimbledon this year was a very good match too even tho' it didn't go five sets. Del Po beating Fed at the U.S. Open too was a very good match. I'm glad Murray prevailed yesterday, but I was too chicken to watch the end of the tiebreak in the first set and the end of the second set (too emotionally fragile myself I guess, cuz I was pulling for Great Scot). Amazing that the Muzzard pulled through in those sets, because usually when Nole is on, he takes full advantage of opportunities when his opponent makes mistakes, and Murray made some wowsers on crucial points. Tennis is such a tough mental and physical game. The stuff champions come back from to win is often mind-boggling.

    Cheers to the champions, and to the runners-up, and indeed thumbs-up to all who battled blood, sweat and tears on the hard courts of Queens, New York.

  14. #994
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    My husband reminded me that the first Scotsman to win Wimbledon was Angus Podgorny, who won when an unassuming couple from the stands charged out and ate his opponent, an alien blancmange. The tennis fun starts around 3:00.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMCNltgrs1U

    (It's Monty Python.)

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    Connors' great comeback matches at the 1991 U.S. Open,
    The most satisfying matches ever.
    The final was a total anti-climax after them.

  16. #996
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Ha ha, re Lendl cracking a smile. He's a tough guy, but I think likely a pussycat underneath it all. I always loved Lendl from the very beginning of his career when everyone else, including fans, journalists and commentators, not to mention Connors and McEnroe were always down on him. It was fun witnessing Lendl persevere and sock it to them all!
    Lendl a pussycat? Hardly. Ever seen "T2"? I think that character was based on him. Lendl was really the first player I saw who would go for the body shot on an overhead or an easy volley. It seemed poor sportsmanship, though 'legal'. I'm sure you can Youtube several of his unnecessary body shots to Mac or whomever when just hitting to the open court would have sufficed. He still reminds me of that character in T2. Ice in the veins, and good for him, it got him world number one for years and multiple slams. I don't remember him fondly at all. In the 80s I was a fan of Mats Wilander and Stefan Edberg. Total gentlemen with game.
    Last edited by Alex Forrest; 09-12-2012 at 01:03 AM.
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  17. #997

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    Lendl a pussycat? Hardly. Ever seen "T2"? I think that character was based on him. Lendl was really the first player I saw who would go for the body shot on an overhead or an easy volley. It seemed poor sportsmanship, though 'legal'. I'm sure you can Youtube several of his unnecessary body shots to Mac or whomever when just hitting to the open court would have sufficed. He still reminds me of that character in T2. Ice in the veins, and good for him, it got him world number one for years and multiple slams. I don't remember him fondly at all. In the 80s I was a fan of Mats Wilander and Stefan Edberg. Total gentlemen with game.
    From what I've read Ivan Lendl was demonized in the US media. Mostly because of the cold war issue, i.e Lendl from then Czechoslovakia. He became a US Citizen in the early 90s. Lendl is very well liked in the UK. I recall some UK journalists at this year's wimbledon talk about how Ivan was a great to interview, very cordial, always remembering people, even years later. I just think Lendl was an intense player.

    On another note, Lendl has 5 daughters, you have to have a sense of humor to the dad of 5 girls

    *His daughters play collegiate golf for the Univ. of Florida.

    Lendl is my 2nd favorite men's player of all time(behind Agassi). Lendl changed the game of men's tennis. He was the first player male or female to take fitness to whole new level. He issued in power tennis in the men's game, he's forehand is one of the best ever. He is 3rd on the list for holding the #1 seed ranking for the most consecutive weeks. His record of 8 straight USO finals is never going to be broken in my opinion.

    Lendl was an aggressive and intense player; Hitting the ball directly into the body of the player at the net. You may look at it as bad's sportsmanship however it is a good percentage shot(people find it hard to get out of the way of their own bodies). I consider the same shot as a server serving the ball into the body of a returner(good percentage serve). Now he may have aimed at John with malice or it could be seen as an alpha shot too, ie. telling John if you want to come to the net be prepared. It was a dominance thing
    On another note, fantastic article about Lendl's plans for Andy.

    Connors is POS in my opinion. Never liked him as a person and player. He's a drama queen, very phony and many times was vulgar on the court(giving the linesman the finger). The NYC crowd did not like Connors and his antics early in his career. They warmed to him in the 80's.

    People talk about the grunting in the ladies game; Connors' grunting in the 70's is equal to women's now, yet it was accepted.
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

  18. #998
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    Quote Originally Posted by topaz View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLRx2TACIKA
    Lendl was an aggressive and intense player; Hitting the ball directly into the body of the player at the net. You may look at it as bad's sportsmanship however it is a good percentage shot(people find it hard to get out of the way of their own bodies). I consider the same shot as a server serving the ball into the body of a returner(good percentage serve). Now he may have aimed at John with malice or it could be seen as an alpha shot too, ie. telling John if you want to come to the net be prepared. It was a dominance thing
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLRx2TACIKA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xAPwx3z950

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...D2XuhqLg8&NR=1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-8lP...eature=related

    As far as I'm concerned, Ivan Lendl deserved every bit of animosity. I played up to JV in tennis, I would never go for the body shot. It's just innate. Sorta like a Romney v Obama. Some things are below the belt. Sorry, even after 20+ years I can't warm to Lendl, and I am still so glad he wasted his final pro years trying unsuccessfully to win at Wimby. The BEST headline ever in tennis was at 1987 Wimby finals "Cash beats Czech!!!"
    Last edited by Alex Forrest; 09-12-2012 at 04:31 AM.
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  19. #999
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    Lendl was not treated fairly in the U.S in his playing days IMO. He and Graf both disrupted the long age of American dominance which had been going almost all the 80s with Evert, Navratilova, Connors, and McEnroe and were vilified for it. People called them boring and said there was nobody to challenge them, yet never complained in 83 and 84 when Navratilova and 84 when McEnroe were even more dominant, and did not complain in 91 and 92 when Seles (not yet an American citizen but already living in the U.S full time and about to get citizenship) dominated with no rival at all.

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    Yes, thanks topaz and judgejudy27, ITA! Especially thanks topaz, for your supportive comments about Lendl's intensity and his groundbreaking impact on the game. So true that Lendl was hated in the U.S. partly due to a Cold War bias. I was at a Lendl match at the U.S. Open in the early 80s when Lendl's career was in its early stages and people in the stands around me were calling Lendl all kinds of names and deriding him as a "Commie," instead of appreciating his obvious talent. Lendl's forehand was perhaps the first major dominating forehand weapon in the era of emerging racket technology, which made other players take notice and start working on making their own forehands formidable assets. As mentioned during recent tennis broadcasts, Lendl was also the first notable player who began switching to a new racket when new balls came into play. Lendl did not have natural gifts as a player. He was simply a hard worker with a determined will of steel. He was an overachiever who made himself a winner despite all obstacles, which included the visceral hate he was often confronted with (even after his success in Grand Slams) from other top players, the press, and fans.

    Yes, Lendl was a smart player too. Good on Lendl to hit into his opponents' bodies!!! That's what all players learn to do today if they want to keep their opponent off balance and win the point. I've heard tennis commentators praising the Williams sisters' opponents for hitting serves into Serena's and Venus' bodies, as a strategic weapon. Players do that routinely today when they can, if they are interested in winning. Players who do that are not trying to hurt their opponent physically -- they are being aggressive and trying to win the match. You can call it a killer instinct if you will, and that is what Andy Murray needed in order to take his game to the next level. As his coach, Lendl has helped Murray develop that aggressive mindset and helped him to think more strategically and avoid the tendency to be passive.

    Obviously (as is apparent in this thread) some of the derision and dislike of Lendl continues to this day, although his fellow players and the press now seem to at least appreciate and give tribute to what Lendl brought to the game of tennis.

    Re the dismissal of Lendl "likely being a pussycat underneath his stern demeanor," clearly he never dared show that side of himself to his detractors. As topaz mentioned, Lendl is fortunate to have a wife and daughters with whom he surely has shared all sides of his personality. I remember when Lendl met and married his wife. They both seemed to be very happy together, and apparently Lendl's happy personal life helped his game on the court. As previously mentioned, Lendl was/ is a very smart guy. During his career, he was polite to the press, and he answered sports journalists' often idiotic questions with a sense of humor which generally went over their heads too.

    Yeah sure Stefan Edberg and Mats Wilander were great champions, both from Sweden. They had a different style of play and different personalities, but they were not above hitting a body shot either when the situation demanded it. Borg was a great champion from Sweden too, and with his easygoing temperament, and after two years of being mentally and physically drained playing against the aggressive snotty pouty McEnroe on Centre Court Wimbledon, Borg had had enough -- No mas, no mas! I don't blame Borg! But isn't it a shame Borg left the game too soon. Even McEnroe realized that it was Borg's presence in the game that helped make him a great player. But Mac's antics and attitude on the court were often less than respectful to the game and to his opponents. I do admire Lendl for working hard on himself and his own game, for not allowing McEnroe, Connors, the press and the fans to get to him, and for eventually sticking it to them all, and in the process changing the game!!!

    If anything, it was Connors and McEnroe who consistently displayed a lack of sportsmanship throughout their careers when they had to play each other, when they had to play Davis Cup with Arthur Ashe as team captain, and when they had to play Lendl. Connors and Mac hated each other, they hated Lendl and they did not particularly care for Arthur either, at least when they were "snot nose rebellious kids." Connors and McEnroe generally got away with murder because they were both beloved by U.S. press and fans. I do have a soft spot for Connors, especially because of how much he loved playing and how he always gave it his all on the court. He was a champion and an entertainer who never gave up, tho' he did have his pouty (and yes, "vulgar" side). Mac always rubbed Connors the wrong way -- b/c Mac was the upstart from the U.S. no less, stealing more of Connors' spotlight and Grand Slam wins. I also admire McEnroe's talent on the court and in the commentating booth, but I never enjoyed watching McEnroe play tennis because he was always so selfish, self-centered, pouty and disagreeable. Mac was the ultimate, loveable to some, bad boy of tennis (now reformed elder statesman).

    ETA:
    The current era of tennis is so refreshing because there are great champions and true gentlemen at the top of the game who have great respect for each other and for the game, particularly Federer and Nadal who both set a high bar in all respects for players like Murray, Djokovic and Del Potro to follow.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 09-12-2012 at 09:13 PM.

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