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  1. #141

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    ice_sk8r, I really appreciate your first-hand sentiment about the situation and I do feel for you as many others here do. Worlds should be festive events for all athletes around the world, like currently going-on Olympic is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ice_sk8r View Post
    Entire post
    ice_sk8r, welcome to FSU.

    If you stick around, you will quickly learn that FSU is not for the faint of heart, and any competitive skater who ventures in does so at his own risk.

    That said, most people who post here on the subject of the minimum scores feel that the coming season's minimum scores are way too high and should either be drastically lowered or done away with. Most of us weren't too happy about the Preliminary Rounds either. But there are those who disagree. Such is life.

  3. #143
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    Preliminary Rounds were horrible but I can understand that with the big increase of the number of entries, ISU Championships because too expensive to host.

    Hopefully after the 'shock and awe' of those huge minimum scores, maybe national federations can agree to pay their own expenses for next season in exchange for scrapping preliminaries/huge minimum scores?

    Although of course that would create another problem. For skaters from federations with hardly any/no funding, the cost of going to ISU Championships would become even more prohibitive.

  4. #144
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    What happened to using fall events to gather minimum score?

  5. #145
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    I don't think qualification should be based only on a minimum score. I don't think that + GOE or higher levels should compensate for not being able -- i.e., demonstrated in one or more international events -- to do the minimum required content. By demonstrated, I mean a ratified element without a fall, including "<", but not "<<". A skater at the senior level without two triples, one in combination, a 2A, and each of the required spins and FW passes shouldn't qualify for championships. For juniors the bar is lower, with the skater being able to do a double [required solo jump]. For the SD and Pairs SP, there are different criteria.

    I also think a skater should get zero credit in the SP/SD for not completing elements, although elements with -GOE, apart from falls and "<<" should.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    What happened to using fall events to gather minimum score?
    The minimum scores can be attained during any of the ISU international events during the 2012/2013 season.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    The minimum scores can be attained during any of the ISU international events during the 2012/2013 season.
    I think Marco is confusing meeting the GP minimums (any combination of TES and PCS) at the early Fall events and meeting the championships TES minimums, which can be met at any of the events listed in Communication 1727 (list of international events). Both still apply, although there is one less event (five) before GP this year.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I think Marco is confusing meeting the GP minimums (any combination of TES and PCS) at the early Fall events and meeting the championships TES minimums, which can be met at any of the events listed in Communication 1727 (list of international events). Both still apply, although there is one less event (five) before GP this year.
    Ahhh ok, thanks for clarifying.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post

    Although of course that would create another problem. For skaters from federations with hardly any/no funding, the cost of going to ISU Championships would become even more prohibitive.
    I don't know of many other sports where the hosts are expected to pay for accommodation/meal expenses of competitors. Let's get real - figure skating is an elitist and expensive sport. If you're not able to pay for a hotel bill for a few days, then that is the least of your worries.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

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    I think there's nothing wrong with the mininum tech score, the only problem is that they picked really high scores.
    CaroFan™

  11. #151
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    The ISU do have the option to change the minimum scores during the season so it's going to be a moving goalpost.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  12. #152

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    Ladies and gentlemen, let us pray:

    May the ISU have the sense to change this minimum TES rule to something more achievable.

    Lord, I realize that this may be a very difficult request, since it first requires the ISU to be infused with a minimum of sense, something they have none of.

    Amen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, let us pray:

    May the ISU have the sense to change this minimum TES rule to something more achievable.

    Lord, I realize that this may be a very difficult request, since it first requires the ISU to be infused with a minimum of sense, something they have none of.

    Amen.
    Ay-MEN!

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by eleonorad View Post
    I think there's nothing wrong with the mininum tech score, the only problem is that they picked really high scores.
    In fact, from their reaction on Twitter, the skaters don't necessarily object to the Euros/4CC scores. It's the high Worlds score that's the problem.
    Though I do think if Worlds approaches with only twelve entries qualified in any discipline, the ISU will give in an lower that minimum. They're idiots, not insane.

  15. #155
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    In dance, 23 teams already have the minimum score.
    Of these 23 teams only 19 would be eligible for worlds, due to the country allocation limits. (eg. Russia has 5 teams with the minimum score, but only 3 places in worlds 2013)

    This minimum score has created an odd scenario, the following countries made the top 25 in worlds 2012, but don't have a team eligible for worlds 2013

    China (12)!!
    Japan (24),
    Spain (19),
    Azerbaijan (17),
    Australia (20),
    Yet, the following country didn't make the top 25, but has a team elligible

    Finland (28)

    Since 20 teams would be enough to hold the dance competition, I can't imagine this score being lowered, more likely it will be raised when many teams get inflated marks at B internationals, especially towards the end of the season. I can imagine the politics flying at these B internationals now, as the smaller Féderations try to get their teams into worlds.

    ICE DANCE

    Canada
    1 Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE
    2 Nicole ORFORD / Thomas WILLIAMS
    3 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR

    Finland
    4 Olesia KARMI / Max LINDHOLM

    France
    5 Nathalie PECHALAT / Fabian BOURZAT
    6 Tiffany ZAHORSKI / Alexis MIART

    United Kingdom

    7 Penny COOMES / Nicholas BUCKLAND

    Germany
    8 Nelli ZHIGANSHINA / Alexander GAZSI
    TANJA KOLBE / STEFANO CARUSO

    Hungary
    9 Zsuzsanna NAGY / Mate FEJES

    Italy
    10 Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE
    Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI
    11 Lorenza ALESSANDRINI / Simone VATURI

    Lithuania

    12 Isabella TOBIAS / Deividas STAGNIUNAS

    Russia
    13 Ekaterina BOBROVA / Dmitri SOLOVIEV
    Ekaterina PUSHKASH / Jonathan GUERREIRO
    Ekaterina RIAZANOVA / Ilia TKACHENKO
    14 Elena ILINYKH / Nikita KATSALAPOV
    15 Victoria SINITSINA / Ruslan ZHIGANSHIN

    Ukraine
    16 Siobhan HEEKIN-CANEDY / Dmitriy DUN

    USA
    17 Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE
    18 Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI
    19 Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE
    Last edited by SkaterMate; 07-31-2012 at 06:11 AM.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaterMate View Post
    Finland
    4 Olesia KARMI / Max LINDHOLM
    I'm not going to fact-check your entire post, but this one jumped out when I went down the list.

    According to their ISU page, their ISU Personal Best in the Short Dance is 36.94 from a Junior Grand Prix event in 2010. Their TES in the Short Dance there was 20.33, far below the required 29.00. More recently, they received a TES of 23.40 for their Short Dance at the 2012 Bavarian Open. As a Senior "B," that later score would count if it were high enough, but it isn't.

    Are you sure you applied the proper criteria (which are mentioned at the top of the thread)?

    And a few words of advice to all of you who care about the World Championships: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--hMJPUBwMc
    Last edited by Vagabond; 07-31-2012 at 06:26 AM.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I'm not going to fact-check your entire post, but this one jumped out when I went down the list.

    Are you sure you applied the proper criteria (which are mentioned at the top of the thread)?
    Yes, I was very, very thorough, mainly thanks to this wonderful Japanese site
    http://deep-edge.net/wsd.php?id=12522

    You will find they got the score at the Palva Romana memorial in Olomouc-

    http://krasoolomouc.websnadno.cz/zavod/index.htm

    .. which is what I was referring to when I mentioned jumped up marks in the later B internationals!! Just look how many got the minimum tech scores in this comp, no politiks here lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the top 6 got the FD minimum, and 3 teams got the SD minimum. It looks like the SD is going to be the hardest to get, as couples such as France's Jones/Caronn failed to get the minimum all season, despite finishing 7th in Europeans.
    Last edited by SkaterMate; 07-31-2012 at 07:06 AM.

  18. #158
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    What SkaterMate posted shows another problem.

    Calling and judging at B-Internationals is often much less strict, as the Pavel Roman Memorial results prove.

    Whilst I am not going to complain about it, if it gives skaters a chance to earn the scores, it's unfair when the playing field is not level and it's a case of being lucky with the calling and judging team.

    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    I don't know of many other sports where the hosts are expected to pay for accommodation/meal expenses of competitors. Let's get real - figure skating is an elitist and expensive sport. If you're not able to pay for a hotel bill for a few days, then that is the least of your worries.
    Fair enough.

    And this solution would be much better than simply excluding "not good enough" skaters from participation entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    The ISU do have the option to change the minimum scores during the season so it's going to be a moving goalpost.
    Yeah, I keep hoping that setting the scores that high was a way of terrifying the federations into accepting that they need to either pay their share or accept preliminary rounds and that ISU is going to lower the scores whilst preparing those changes for next congress.

  19. #159

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    Im getting ready for all those Chanflation Scores that will be
    given at Nebelhorn, Golden Spin or Merano Cup

  20. #160

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    Here's a thought, maybe ISU has decided to give "even" more generous GOEs so skaters could get to that minimum TES scores.

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