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  1. #201
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    Amateur means that the skaters are not paid (although they can win price money).
    Actually, in the days of true Olympic amateurism, the athlete was not allowed to accept any money, even prize money, nor anything else of value to be an amateur. The term amateur no longer has any relevance in figure skating. Plushenko and Kwan were allowed to make piles of money while still competing in ISU events. The only distinction now is "eligible" and "ineligible" and the only real money difference is whether the events where you earned your money were ISU sanctioned/ federation approved.

    Still, there is an issue here in that skaters with some international success can earn enough to support themselves while skaters not good enough to earn much prize money or get paid for shows and exhibitions need other jobs and/or support from federations, sponsors and their families.

    I'm not sure the ISU gives those folks much thought in deciding how to run things.

    Since the ISU also governs speedskating, that may be the best comparison. What kinds of ticket sales and broadcast contracts do speedskating championships attract?
    I think the ISU does pretty well selling TV rights to speed skating in Europe. I don't know about the rest of the world but, historically, interest from US TV networks has always been pretty low. Back when FS broadcast rights were valuable in the US, the ISU used to bundle figure and speed skating so that the network who wanted figure skating had to buy both. Then the ISU gave a big chunk of what was really FS revenue to the speed skating side.

    BTW, there are also qualifying standards for speed skating worlds, if that's any consolation.

    For the skating championship to take place, the organisers needs to ensure that they sell the tickets and TV rights. I understand what you are saying that "Lots of sports that aren't spectator-friendly have world championships", but I don't believe that it would happen in skating if people didn't want to watch it.
    I can't think of any Olympic movement sport that does not hold World Championships. * The ones who do not have a big enough following for the championships to pay for themselves thru TV and ticket sales find other ways to pay for them, like corporate sponsorships. The event would have to be very different, though, with a much smaller budget. For starters, they would probably be in smaller cities with smaller (cheaper to rent) arenas. They may even have to cut back on the VIP lounges and luxury hotel suites for Speedy and his cronies.

    * Edited to add - I've been pondering this question all afternoon and did think of one. Tennis doesn't have a world championship, but it isn't because they couldn't afford one. They already have plenty of other big events. Is baseball still in the Olympics? I'm not sure if they have one either.
    Last edited by Susan M; 08-08-2012 at 02:15 AM.

  2. #202

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    Posted on the ISU site today:
    17 December 2012

    Further to ISU Communication No. 1742, item 7, ISU Communication 1767, item 7 and internal consultations among all competent ISU bodies, it is herewith confirmed that the Minimum Total Technical Scores for the ISU European Figure Skating Championships 2013 remain as stated in ISU Communication No. 1742, item 7, namely:

    MEN SP 25,00 FS 45,00
    LADIES SP 20,00 FS 36,00
    PAIR SKATING SP 20,00 FS 36,00
    ICE DANCE SD 18,00 FD 28,00

    (SP = Short Program – SD = Short Dance – FS = Free Skating – FD = Free Dance)

    For the subsequent ISU Championships (ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships, ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships and ISU World Figure Skating Championships) the same evaluation is being made and the conclusions will be communicated in due time, namely 2 weeks before the entry deadline of each 2013 Championships.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  3. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I've been pondering this question all afternoon and did think of one. Tennis doesn't have a world championship, but it isn't because they couldn't afford one. They already have plenty of other big events. Is baseball still in the Olympics? I'm not sure if they have one either.
    Baseball is not an Olympic sport any more, but they have a World Cup, every 2 years. Also, soccer (arguably not taken very seriously as an Olympic sport with the age rules they have in place) only has a World Cup every 4 years, but plenty of qualifiers and other Regional championships in between.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_World_Cup

  4. #204
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    It will be interesting to see if the ISU sticks with the same minimum scores for 4CC as for Euros.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  5. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    It will be interesting to see if the ISU sticks with the same minimum scores for 4CC as for Euros.
    4CC and Euros are actually fair enough numbers. If a skater can't reach those TES, then they really dont deserve to be in an ISU championship IMO, so I dont think they will be changed.

    Worlds is another story, so far we have a prospect of less than 24 entries in the Ladies field :S
    Last edited by SamuraiK; 12-18-2012 at 07:47 PM.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiK View Post
    Worlds is another story, so far we have a prospect of less than 24 entries in the Ladies field :S
    Perhaps with the minimum score in place, we can get rid of the per country rule?

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiK View Post
    4CC and Euros are actually fair enough numbers.
    It'll certainly make for a shorter competition at 4CC.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  8. #208

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    Ami Parekh (IND) reached the 4CC SP minimum at Golden Spin of Zagreb this past weekend (she had already achieved the FS minimum at Challenge Cup in March 2012).
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  9. #209
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    Parekh barely missed the Euros/4C's FS minimum at Golden Spin by .05, so it shows her earlier result was not a fluke.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    It'll certainly make for a shorter competition at 4CC.
    Well so far the potential men entries for 4CC is around 25 , as much as we usually see there and for ladies is 22 ,which is lower but at least means the end of the suburbian novice-level skaters representing their great granpas countries.

  11. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiK View Post
    Well so far the potential men entries for 4CC is around 25 , as much as we usually see there and for ladies is 22 ,which is lower but at least means the end of the suburbian novice-level skaters representing their great granpas countries.
    I think it means that only skaters who are representing their great granpas countries or skaters who train in a bigger country like the USA will get to go. Looking at Australia that's most of them, the ones training there barely missed the score. New Zealand won't qualify any skaters at all. That's not going to help the smaller countries encourage thier local skaters, seems more likely to make them quit.

  12. #212
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    Wonder what the hold-up is with the ISU announcing the final minimum TES scores for 4CC. They have stated that they would announce them two weeks before the deadline for entries which would have been around 24 Dec?

  13. #213

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    The entry deadline for 2013 4CC is listed as Jan. 16 in the Announcement: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3758
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiro View Post
    Wonder what the hold-up is with the ISU announcing the final minimum TES scores for 4CC. They have stated that they would announce them two weeks before the deadline for entries which would have been around 24 Dec?
    They're confirmed in this announcement:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    The entry deadline for 2013 4CC is listed as Jan. 16 in the Announcement: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3758
    Since that's four days before US Nationals start and four days before Canadians end, how many substitutes can a federation submit? Could, for example, USFS and Skate Canada submit every senior on the Nationals roster who is age-eligible and has met the 4C's TES minimums and then re-assign the team from the list after making the selections? Or do they have to guess at the top six (team and subs) and hope no one outside this group skates a blinder at Nationals?
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    The entry deadline for 2013 4CC is listed as Jan. 16 in the Announcement: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3758
    That'll be interesting, considering Canadians doesn't end until January 20, with the dance final that day, and ladies, mens and pairs on the 19th.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiro View Post
    Wonder what the hold-up is with the ISU announcing the final minimum TES scores for 4CC. They have stated that they would announce them two weeks before the deadline for entries which would have been around 24 Dec?
    They are scouring every rink in the world to find a fourth federation with an eligible Pairs team, and then they'll set the TES minimums accordingly.

  17. #217
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    That would be a first. T/T were a gift, only because a Canadian was available.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    The entry deadline for 2013 4CC is listed as Jan. 16 in the Announcement: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3758
    Thanks, but why the difference between Euros and 4CC? Euros deadline was 4 weeks before start of comp, but 4CC is 3. Strange.

  19. #219
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    The ISU isn't the most consistent organization.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  20. #220

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Since that's four days before US Nationals start and four days before Canadians end, how many substitutes can a federation submit? Could, for example, USFS and Skate Canada submit every senior on the Nationals roster who is age-eligible and has met the 4C's TES minimums and then re-assign the team from the list after making the selections? Or do they have to guess at the top six (team and subs) and hope no one outside this group skates a blinder at Nationals?
    I would imagine that both USFS and Skate Canada have made arrangements with the ISU about the timing of their 4CC entry/alternate by name submissions.

    I did a quick count and, of the senior level skaters/teams competing at U.S. Nationals, there are 16 men, 16 ladies, 7 pairs, and 7 dance teams that currently are age-eligible and have the minimum scores for 4CC.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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