well don't know which competition you have watched, but the once i have rewatched at least a hundred times they certainly looked beautifully attempted and landed! and her getting credit for it and positive goe also shows that the technical judge thinks and sees the same as i do!
Four Continents in the Kwan era is complex though since almost none of the top skaters ever competed there, as the fact Kwan active from 1999-2005 never competing there reflects.
I agree about the importance of Europeans, I am just not sure how to put into proper perspective since non Europeans dont get to compete there. I will probably redo my totals giving the same value to Europeans and Four Continents though, and giving some value to the grand prix events and Goodwill Games. It seems Slutskaya would come out ahead in that case. For the skaters who chose not to compete at Four Continents, I guess it was their choice.
The only skaters that sort of get 'shorted' are the ones who win both Olympics Worlds early in life, specifcally Tara and Yuna. Life changes once the greatest goals are met, who knows what other medals they might have earned had they still been hungry and singularily focused toward skating competition.
Voted for Lulu, but feel it's close between her and Shiz.
"I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"
[QUOTE=FunnyBut;3604767] What kind of competition did Irina have at Euros? Really only Maria B., and only for about three seasons. QUOTE]
Just to play the devils advocate.
Irina won her first euro title against Surya Bonaly. Bonaly was a world silver medalist.
Irina competed against Butyrskaya who was a euro and world champion.
Irina medalled ahead of Szewczenko who was a world bronze medalist.
Irina competed against Sokolova who despite not being a red hot skater still was able to pull a silver medal at the world championships.
So I wouldn't discredit Irina's achievements at the european championships.
Lu Chen has a higher medal count and through most of her career was a stronger competitor than Arakawa IMO. I voted for Shizzle.
I also voted for Shizuka (same as last round).
Unpopular opinion, but this is the point where I would kick out Slutskaya.
Slutskaya had about one season where she was skating at her full potential, which was the season of her comeback in late 99-2000. She improved every aspect of her skating and was at her absolute peak. Her 99 and 2000 sps are her best ever and I don't think I've ever seen her move with more power, freedom, elegance, and feeling as this section of this exhibition program from the 2000 season. or this Schindler's List exhibition exhibition from around the same time. That would have been a way better program for the Olympics than the heavy and ponderous Tosca program.
And of course, her best competitive skate was the 2000 GPF. Obviously the triple/triples are a huge part, but she's never skated a competitive program with that much lightness and ease ever again. Compare this to her "Don Quixote" skates from the next season and their is no comparison.
Then, once she got back to the top, it was back to the old Slutskaya; stiff upper body, stiff arms, choreography disconnected from the music, stalked jumps, heavy landed lutz/flip jumps, unfinished spins, etc... Total regression.
Chen and Arakawa at least improved the quality of their skating, style, and programs throughout their career.
Heavy landed lutz/flip? Have you ever seen her lutz or flip? They are gorgeous! She got about twice the height Michelle had. Unfinished spins? So how would you describe Michelle's spins? Feeble imitation of spins?
Is this triple flip heavy landed? Huge height and good flow out of the jump. I see nothing bad in this jump.
She also didn't have any problematic jump like most of current skaters have, e.g. loop for Yu-Na. She had a complete set of all triples (without triple axel of course) and always put them all in her programs. Not to mention her difficult entrance to triple loop which she popularised and triple-triples with loop at the end.
Apart from being one of the best jumpers in history, Slutskaya probably ranks in the top ten of the best spinners ever too. Technically she was a whole package. Huge jumps, great spins, speed, deep edges in spirals (of course Dick and Peggy never even mentioned her edges and speed in spirals, only focusing on the extention)...
Even when CoP came into the scene she easily adjusted and Dick Button once noticed that when most of the skaters lost speed and centering when they got into difficult variations, Slutskaya not only didn't lose speed but actually gained it and stayed in one spot on the ice. Her biellman and donut were first rate. She didn't have to drop her leg unaesthetically like most of skaters do. Her camel was also great and she got big height on her flying spins. Everything about her spins was superior to Kwan apart from sit spin. Her layback position was also very good with nice arch in the back and good leg position. Michelle had terrible back position and low free leg.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUGoNw8lXy8&t=3m53s an example of her great signature double biellman spin
Shizuka is a typical late bloomer.
Although she had been called "a gifted girl" when she was a novice, she could not deliver an eye-catching performance in international competitions after her senior debut.
But when you see the competitive results of the last three years of her career as an amateur athlete, she got;
1 Gold at Olympics
1 Gold at World Championships
1 Silver at GPF
1 Bronze at GPF.
This is a great accomplishment.
Her winning at 2006 Winter Olympics was not only the first gold medal in Asian countries in figure skating history, but was a only "one" Gold medal that entire Japanese national Olympic team could get at 2006 Olympics, and that happed at the last moment of that Olympic period! You can't imagine how deeply Japanese people were moved and exited.
I call the skater who can deliver the performance when it really counts a strong skater. Shizuka is definitely one of the strongest skaters.
Last edited by ali_dorate; 06-27-2012 at 01:23 PM.
^ Yeah, unfortunately, Shizuka wasn't consistent enough to deliver those performances when it always counted. She screwed up at Worlds more than half the time she was there and placed abysmally in Nagano and 1998 Worlds and had a dry spell on the World scene for nearly 4 years after that.
Shiz has some nice aspects to her skating, but IMO it is her time to go.
Shizuka's going to go, huh?
I voted Mao.
Worlds 2012 the 3S was under-rotated and got negative GOE, no 3T attempted.
Worlds 2011 Popped the salchow to a 1S and had the 3T downgraded (<<).
Worlds 2010 She landed the 3T with positive GOE but did not attempt a salchow.
2010 Olympics popped the toe-loop to a 1T and did not attempt a salchow.
I don't think she included a salchow for at least a couple of seasons prior to the Olympics so i'm just not seeing salchow and toe-loop as being these wonderful jumps that Mao did/does.