i voted for irina compared to all the other ladies she really was the least polished artistically....
I just watched your 1st video to confirm whether I had been wrong.
What you have elaborated as fully rotated beautiful 3A turned out to be a two-footed landing. As for rest, I gave up watching.
I'm afraid you and I seem to have a difference in opinion as to what a fully rotated beautiful jump is. My definition of a beautiful jump is one that has a clean take-off, fully rotated in the air, landed on one foot, and a nice running edge on exit.
Miss Asada never had a clean jump technique.
Otherwise, why would she bother completely revamping her jump technique so late in her career had it been so wonderful?
Get over it.
Last edited by RumbleFish; 06-26-2012 at 06:05 PM.
Posting from Round 6 (in respone to another poster)!
Those 3-3 by Shiz mean zip when most of them were pretty clearly underrotated. Lu did 3-3 in her practices and had landed a 3-3 in competition before.
The other big thing you are forgetting is consistency. Shiz is getting a lot of votes because she lacked any form of it. Lu skated clean LPs multiple times in her career, which can't exactly be said of Shiz. Shiz was on the senior international scene for 8 years and Lu was on it for about 6 (excluding '97) and Lu had a lot more to show for her shorter career than Shiz does.
And if you call a 2 time Olympics bronze medalist (one of which should have been a silver), 1 World gold, 1 World silver, and 2 World bronzes a "not so amazing medal record," then I don't know what is an amazing medal record. Lu medaled at almost every worlds she was at and won a medal at 2 of the 3 Olympics she attended. Sure, Lu doesn't have that elusive Olympic gold, but her medal count is pretty darn impressive for someone coming from a nation who had absolutely no idea how to politick and fully back its skaters.
She would have won so many more medals had she been from a skating powerhouse.
Craptacular programs she skated to during her early career held her back also in my opinion. Her 95 and 96 programs were so much better than her Albertville and Lillehammer programs.
Last edited by RumbleFish; 06-26-2012 at 03:14 PM.
Bye Bye Lu Chen.
What were Arakawa's best performances other than at 2004 Worlds and the 2006 Olympics?
To me, she seems like figure skating's answer to The Cyrcle or Kim Wilde -- a two-hit wonder.
Since Kwan is not in the running yet I'll go for Arakawa. I actually love Arakawa, but not as much as Chen.
Artistically, Chen had more beautiful and memorable signature programs, especially the Last Emperor and Rach. Arawaka's greatest moments were all skating to Turandot, which is a piece of music that really carries you. The program wasn't even new in 2004 (she had used it in 2001-02 previously) and the choreography, while ok, is not brilliant. People get on S&P's case for recycling a 4 year old program, but Arakawa doesn't get as much criticism for that.
On the technical side it's Arakawa for her 3-3s, edges, and being one of the few women to get a 6.0 for tech (granted it was at 2004 Worlds aka the 6.0 free for all).
I have to give the edge to Chen because she was a trailblazer for her country who really had to earn the respect from the judges, and she stayed in medal contention for 5 years all on her own merits. I'm not counting her failing to quality in 1997 since she was injured. Arakawa was never consistently at the top. She failed to make the World team for 4 years in a row, and that was during the Suguri/Onda years, not the more challenging Asada/Ando era. After winning Worlds, she dropped to 9th the next year... in fact her Worlds results are crazy.... 1st, 8th, 9th, 22nd.
She wasn't even that memorable during the Olympic winning season. She didn't qualify for GPF and barely made the Japanese team (bronze medal, 4th in the LP). In fact, fair or not, the 2006 Olympics has a giant asterisk for me because Asada wasn't there and she beat every Olympic medalist in senior competition during that season. Unlike Chen, who was the only top skater from her country, I think Arakawa benefited from being considered the top Japanese female at the Olympics due to her world title 2 years prior and the fact that Asada wasn't there. The judges kept the scores artificially close to Slutskaya and Cohen in the SP, and Arakawa benefited from skating after Cohen and knowing she didn't need her triple-triples to at least lock in silver. I always thought she won Torino mostly on the practice ice.
Voting for Chen Lu... Yes artistically she was great, but compared to the other skaters on this poll, her technical ability is way low.
I voted for Shizuka. While her performances to "Turandot" were magical (esp Worlds 2004), she couldn't skate well to anything else ... Chen Lu (and all the others) could not only skate well to more than one piece of music, but actually medal! I also treat Chen Lu as having two World golds, since (IMO) 1996 should have been a tie, with duplicate golds.
The above is my sentiment exactly, but I can understand the rationale for voting Lulu off. Since becoming a FS fan in 94 after the famous WACK, I don't recall Chen Lu ever skating a clean (as in, all planned elements landed) long program other than 96 Worlds. I think her Olympics 94 LP was the best of the night and was undermarked, but wonder the outcome if she had landed her planned 3lz/3t and/or didn't have the hand down on the 3f. A doubled 3lz nearly cost her World gold. She barely squeezed out the win in 95 (if I remember correctly, she and Surya received 3 1st place ordinals, and either Michelle also received 3, or she received 2 and Nicole received one). And as happy as I was for her winning a 2nd bronze at 98 Olympics, I don't think it was deserved.
Last edited by FunnyBut; 06-26-2012 at 04:42 PM.
Re-posting what I posted last round:
I'll add to that by saying in comparison to Chen, Shizuka's record is less impressive. Yes, Shiz has an OGM but that's one competition and one result. As we get to the end of the poll we need curve the myopia and look at the bigger picture when it comes to the skater as a whole, which means pointing to one accomplishment isn't going to cut it anymore.Shizuka.
I think she was a gorgeous skater with wonderful skills but to say she competed as long as she did, given her skill set, she should have accomplished a lot more. She lacked competitive fire and focus and was far too sporadic with her brilliance. Her gold medal win in Torino was good but definitely one of the more lackluster performances I've seen in terms of OGM wins. Her 2004 worlds performance was 3x better IMO.
Shizuka's inconsistency and lack of dominance is why I pick her to go...
IMO Chen's body of work over the course of her career is more consistent. She's also regarded as one of the most artistic skaters of her era. Additionally, she was a pioneer for figure skating in her country (a la Yu-Na in Korea).
I think Shizuka was a skater with great edges, technique and jumping ability. Artistically I found her to be a one-note skater and that note was always something by Puccini. She was a middle of the pack skater who had the skate of her life in Dortmund (2004 worlds) and managed to hold it together in Torino while others fell apart.
When comparing her traits and accomplishments to the remaining skaters on this list, her body of work doesn't hold up IMO.
For me it was a tough choice between Shizuka and Chen Lu. I love them both. I voted for Shizuka based on the fact that in all her years of competing she won medals at world/Olympic level just twice. They were both golds which raises her overall value a lot, but I would give more credit to Chen Lu's sustained success over the years. She missed the cut in 1997 worlds due to personal problems, but otherwise she has been very competitive and at least a medal contender (plus a world champion) rest of the way. Her 1996 LP performance at worlds, which got her two 6.0s (but did not win the gold) was one of the most artistic performance by a lady I have ever seen.
In 92 Albertville, she skated the best freeskate but didn't get acknowledged because she had made a silly mistake in the SP and hence didn't make the final flight.
Like you said, she skated the best freeskate in 94 Lillehammer but was undermarked.
In 95 Worlds, she won the competition convincingly, yet she barely eaked out enough ordinals.
The Last Emperor has been one of my favorite programs. I just can't get enough of how she does her steps starting from 3m10s. Although I am an Asian, I had never realized before how effervescent Asian music can be.
At 96 Edmonton, she really should have won the gold with Rachmaninoff. There was a difference in level of maturity between her and young Michelle Kwan that one more triple jump just couldn't make up for.
I agree that her bronze medal at 98 Nagano was a gift. I'm usually not for judges giving out medals for life time acheivements, but if I had to choose one skater who deserved one, it would have been Chen Lu at Nagano. She had been through so much, and yet given so many beautiful performances over the years.
I just saw this clip of her and her husband Denis Petrov. It seems she is doing so well having her own rink in China. I hope she does just as well in coaching as she did in skating, and showcase her students in major competitions soon.
I voted for Arakawa instead of Chen.. same reasons as last time.
"If I agree well it's just to appease you 'cause I don't remember what were fighting for..." - Sarah McLachlan
The thing about them is neither had the capacity to be dominant skaters. Both won all their major titles through others mistakes. That is why the 96 Worlds would have been the crowning glory of Chen's career, she would have defended her title over a clean 7 triple Kwan who had developed great artistry and dominated that season, but 2 more people had to feel a certain way for her to have that moment. Arakawa could have had that moment in Turin if she did her practice programs, nobody would dare say that a clean Cohen or Slutskaya had beaten her if she her program with the content she had planned as she probably would have scored around 140 based on what she got for what she did, but she didnt.