Figure Skating Champions SURVIVOR: Ladies ROUND 7

[bartek]

Just put bartek on ignore. The Kwan hate from them is such they can't be objective about anything.

I am far from being a Kwan hater. I just defend Irina.

[bartek]

Even if that last statement were true, which, as we have seen, it isn't, can't you see the difference between declining to be interviewed and stomping around in public like a sore loser?

The last statement is true. I guess you are a big Michelle fan so you probably watched the whole performance with kiss and cry and everything. Then you should very well know about that: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GkLbzBQitg#t=8m42s

Miuchelle's behaviour was totally understandable for me though. She felt heartbroken and didn't want to talk with journalists. Irina felt terrible after her loses at the Olympics and it's not surprising at all either.

[smarts1]

The triple flip has been a problem for every bronze and silver medalist at the Olympics for the ladies since 1994 IMO.

For example: In 1994, Kerrigan doubled hers and Lulu put a hand down on hers.

In 1998, Kwan had an off landing on hers and Lulu stepped out of hers.

In 2002, Irina was way forward on hers and Kwan fell on it.

In 2006, Sasha stepped out of hers and Irina doubled hers.

In 2010, Mao underrotated hers and Joannie stepped out hers.

[pollyanna]

If Michelle declined an interview, then what was that link Triple Butz posted here?

[bartek]

If Michelle declined an interview, then what was that link Triple Butz posted here?

Firstly she declined it but after calming down and catching a breath she agreed. Maybe she talked with her coach and/or family and they helped her calm down and suggested her being interviewed.

[pollyanna]

Firstly she declined it but after calming down and catching a breath she agreed. Maybe she talked with her coach and/or family and they helped her calm down and suggested her being interviewed.

How do you know? Were you there? Maybe she was composing herself. Maybe she was taking a piss. Maybe she was blowing her nose. She did not decline an interview, she just wasn't ready to give one when the media wanted her to. For all you know, she fully intended to give one all along, just not at the moment Lesley Visser wanted.

[attyfan]

The triple flip has been a problem for every bronze and silver medalist at the Olympics for the ladies since 1994 IMO.

For example: In 1994, Kerrigan doubled hers and Lulu put a hand down on hers.

In 1998, Kwan had an off landing on hers and Lulu stepped out of hers.

In 2002, Irina was way forward on hers and Kwan fell on it.

In 2006, Sasha stepped out of hers and Irina doubled hers.

In 2010, Mao underrotated hers and Joannie stepped out hers.

What is it with that jump and the Olys? Not only the ladies, but that jump cost Kurt a lot in 94. Any other men?

[RumbleFish]

Any men other than Kurt in '94 lose their Oly hopes with that jump?

Orser stepped out of his in Calgary FS, IIRC.

[falling_dance]

Lysacek doubled his short program flip in Turin, receiving just .7 for that element. By itself, full credit for a clean triple flip wouldn't close the gap between him and Jeffrey Buttle (7.46 points overall), but missing a jump element probably hurt his PCS slightly in that phase. In addition, missing the final group couldn't have helped his score in the free skate.

[Triple Butz]

What is it with that jump and the Olys?

Maybe that's why Lepisto and Ando left it out of their free programs in 2010

[smarts1]

^ Like Laura can even do a flip... Has anyone seen her do it before in practice?

[Marco]

The triple flip has been a problem for every bronze and silver medalist at the Olympics for the ladies since 1994 IMO.

For example: In 1994, Kerrigan doubled hers and Lulu put a hand down on hers.

In 1998, Kwan had an off landing on hers and Lulu stepped out of hers.

In 2002, Irina was way forward on hers and Kwan fell on it.

In 2006, Sasha stepped out of hers and Irina doubled hers.

In 2010, Mao underrotated hers and Joannie stepped out hers.

Not to mention Slutskaya would probably have medalled in 1998 if she had landed her 3flip clean (she put her hand down and turned out of landing).

Interestingly, not even the OGMs had great 3flips. Baiul 2 footed hers in 1994, Hughes cheated hers in 2002, and Arakawa heavily lipped hers. Lipinski narrowly escaped fate in 1998 and fell on it first at Nationals 6 weeks earlier and Kim deferred her flip problems to Worlds 6 weeks later.

The good 3flips were all taken in 1992 when the top 5 in the free skate all landed great ones. The 2 year skip must have affected the 3flip karma.

[BmcC102]

Not to mention Slutskaya would probably have medalled in 1998 if she had landed her 3flip clean (she put her hand down and turned out of landing).

Interestingly, not even the OGMs had great 3flips. Baiul 2 footed hers in 1994, Hughes cheated hers in 2002, and Arakawa heavily lipped hers. Lipinski narrowly escaped fate in 1998 and fell on it first at Nationals 6 weeks earlier and Kim deferred her flip problems to Worlds 6 weeks later.

The good 3flips were all taken in 1992 when the top 5 in the free skate all landed great ones. The 2 year skip must have affected the 3flip karma.

I was thinking the same thing! If we want clean 3 flips in the top six, we have to move the olympics again to the "true" cycle.

In terms of the OGM, you are right, except that Tara's 3 flip was usually very good for her, including the one she did in Nagano in the LP. Sure, like you said, she fell on it at Nationals, but mostly it was a really great jump for her.

Here is an excellent one from the 1997-98 Champion Series (later Grand Prix) Final:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...eK8uHOM#t=112s

[t.mann]

I have ever heard that 3F is a jump easy to make a mistake at a nervous situation.
Maybe a matter of the jump mechanism??

[t.mann]

Wasn't Yagudin's 3F in 02 Oly non-perfect as well?

[Mafke]

I've been saying for years that while the lutz might be harder to _learn_, the flip is probably harder to _do_ in high stakes competition.

A couple of years ago someone did some counting and concluded that the flip has a significantly higher failure rate in competition than does the lutz.

I think it's probably because the flip requires trickier timing and is less forgiving of mistakes than the lutz.

One might presume that the ISU have a stastician or two around to tweak the point values based on this kind of idea. But I'm afraid one would be terribly disappointed....

[magnolia]

Losing one's cool because they did not peform as well as they wanted to after an important competition is totally understandable and that interview of Michelle is just heartbreaking. (Though of course, if that disappointment is turned to b****ing about other skaters, I do wonder about that person's integrity.)

For me, the kind of behavior that diminishes the skater as an athlete (as someone who is supposed to have sportsmanship) is when they e.g., glare at a rival throughout their official practice to unsettle them (like Katerina Witt was meant to have done) or purposefully get in their way during practice.

A far more reprehensible behavior is when a skater makes a false allegation that other skaters got in THEIR way during official practice. That's just totally out of order and fills me with disgust.

[Cherub721]

Wasn't Yagudin's 3F in 02 Oly non-perfect as well?

Yes... it was clean, but he had to will himself not to put a hand down.

Another example: Plushenko doubled his flip in Torino!

[Plusdinfo]

I'm not chiming in to pass judgment in any direction, but to point out a fact: Terry Gannon said on the ABC video that was linked: "And Michelle Kwan backstage... we tried to get her for an interview, she has declined..."

How do you know? Were you there? Maybe she was composing herself. Maybe she was taking a piss. Maybe she was blowing her nose. She did not decline an interview, she just wasn't ready to give one when the media wanted her to. For all you know, she fully intended to give one all along, just not at the moment Lesley Visser wanted.

[os168]

What's all this criticism on Irina for showing privately how she really felt. How can anyone truly criticize someone for being emotionally honest and invested in what they do. If I had worked so hard for so long and for something I so wanted and failed, I'd reserve the right to bawling my eyes out and even throw a tantrum or two in my private locker room without judgement. There's nothing right or wrong about it. Nobody can truly understand it unless they have walked in their shoes (or skates in this case). I am curious of those who are s readily handing out criticisms, have they ever worked so hard for something so long and failed before? If so, maybe a little understanding and empathy are in order.

I personally think it is a cultural indifference. Some Russians to my mind are very emotionally honest and passionate people. They feel everything and they are unafraid to externalize it. Certain people however really are too obsessed with the appearance of political correctness. These self-appointed guardian of good behaviour/good sportsmanship which are just nicer kinder words for false pretences. It doesn't mean the feelings are not there. They are just better at self-anethesia it.

Like it or not, competitive figure skating are not always about niceties and fairness, that is a fact. These skaters trains for years busting their blood, guts, suffering for a sport that is constantly marked by certain political trickery and influences that are far too hush hush. One does not survive by being nice and sweet about it whatever the media say. That is another reason of my appreciation of Johhny Weir and understand why he feel Russian at times. He is one of the few skaters unafraid to show how he feel, speak up for himself and being unafraid of being un-pc about it. No wonder it made him very unpopular with certain people.

My vote goes to Shizuka on the other hand. I think she is a beautiful skater with insane ina bauer, but I watch skating for fully realized programs and performances more than individual skills and (maybe) even medals. Lulu provided me with unforgettable programs that lasts to an eternity, so she get to stay.