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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDANN1013 View Post
    One problem with that, Heckles, Sanducksy WAS NOT an employee of Penn StTe football in 2002 when the shower scene happened. Sanducksy was granted access BY the Athelic director and the President of the university NOT by Joe Paterno. When the shower scene happened it was reported to Paterno by McCleary, if Joe Paterno or anyone else reported it to the authorities, the cops would have asked if they witnessed the crime, otherwise it might be considered hearsay evidence.

    Carol
    Oh come on. So Paterno was just supposed to stay mum and hope that McCleary reported the CHILD MOLESTOR to the police, and when he didn't, it was okay that Paterno didn't do ANYTHING? How much CSI do you watch? Do you seriously think that it's okay for an authority figure, who did have power over McCleary, to not immediately take what McCleary told him to the police? 'Hearsay evidence'? Are you kidding me? Do you really think that you cannot report something to the police unless you have witnessed it yourself or have solid, incontrovertible evidence? That's what a courtroom is for.

    Anyone with a brain knows that because these things were happening on Penn State grounds, Penn State was liable. It was Paterno's duty, if not in writing as part of his job than as a human being, to report such things and stop them from happening - because, don't you know, child molestation is llegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    And, as a victim of sexual abuse myself, I am still incredulous at the idea that anyone is more guilty than Sandusky.
    I dont think anyone said that the people who covered up are more guilty than Sandusky. Of course not. But I think McQuery for one should go to jail & he probably would have if he had not made a deal for his testimony. I can't even imagine in my wildest not stopping whatever was going on in the shower. Why didn't he run in there & break it up? Why didn't he go to the police instead of to Paterno? It looks like he won't get any punishment at all for his involvement. He should be blackballed from any sports-related jobs. I for one would not want a child of mine in his care. He had very poor judgement to say the least.

    The guilt of the officials at Penn State is variable. Some of them are like the bar owner who let's the mob run something illegal in his back room because they pay him to turn a blind eye. Some are like a landlord who suspects he's rented to the mob but doesn't investigate so he can claim he didn't know anything; but he kind of does know. And some are like an absentee landlord whose really does have absolutely no idea something hinky is happening on his property. These people are not all equally guilty as each other let alone equally guilty with the ones committing crimes.

    The bouncer in the above example is actually a member of the gang. He's like the driver of a getaway car in a bank robbery. Maybe he didn't come in to the bank and say "give me all your money" but he committed the same crime because the job wouldn't have been successfully pulled off without his contribution. I don't see any of the officials in that role unless there was one who actively funneled boys to Sandusky to keep him happy.
    I agree with most of this but once they knew about the abuse & said nothing when they saw Sandusky having access to other young boys, then I see them as the bouncer or the getaway driver....an active participant in the crime.

    As for the penalties, I think the fine should have been twice what it was at a *minimum*. But I think the stripping of the titles was petty and dumb. I also think most of the sanctions hurt the people least involved including some who are completely innocent.

    If they want to punish wrong-doers, they should take away everyone's coaching credentials (well the NCAA equivalent of that) and bar them from coaching anywhere for at least 5 years but preferably more. THAT would punish people who actually did something wrong instead of players some of whom are not only victims of Sandusky but now are victims of the NCAA.
    I agree with the 2nd paragraph but I also agreed with the stripping of titles. That hurt the school, not the players. Any individual stats or titles were not affected. The atmosphere at the school was that football was king & everything else could go to hell. The coaching staff did not create this atmosphere in a vacuum. Football was big money & the college administrators went along with whatever promoted football.
    Last edited by taf2002; 07-26-2012 at 05:18 PM.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    Why didn't he run in there & break it up?
    According to McQueary, he did.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/co...ticle-1.977525

    Unless the victim comes forward or Sandusky makes some mind-boggling confession, I think we need to take him at his word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    That article is too short and vague. I can't tell whether "made sure it stopped" means going in to break it up right then and there, since all the details are about what he did elsewhere and afterward.

    Unless the victim comes forward
    Apparently he is in the process of doing so: http://news.yahoo.com/jerry-sandusky...opstories.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    That article is too short and vague. I can't tell whether "made sure it stopped" means going in to break it up right then and there, since all the details are about what he did elsewhere and afterward.
    What else could it mean?

    By the way, McQueary has claimed that he did go to the police.

    http://articles.mcall.com/2011-11-15...rt-joe-paterno

    I don't know whether Louis Freeh's investigation (or anything else) corroborated this, but I'm inclined to believe McQueary about this too.

  6. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    What else could it mean?

    By the way, McQueary has claimed that he did go to the police.

    http://articles.mcall.com/2011-11-15...rt-joe-paterno

    I don't know whether Louis Freeh's investigation (or anything else) corroborated this, but I'm inclined to believe McQueary about this too.
    I can't open the article but are you sure he didn't mean campus police? I have never heard he called 911. I'm sure after he walked in on the abuse he ended it even if it wasn't physical. I can understand being stunned by what he just saw. He called his father than night saw Paterno the next day. and continued to work with Sandusky for years after and never said a word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    I can't open the article but are you sure he didn't mean campus police? I have never heard he called 911. I'm sure after he walked in on the abuse he ended it even if it wasn't physical. I can understand being stunned by what he just saw. He called his father than night saw Paterno the next day. and continued to work with Sandusky for years after and never said a word.
    In what way did McQueary continue to work with Sandusky? I haven't read any of the testimony (or the report), but I thought that they had very little to do with one another after Sandusky "retired" several years before that shower incident. I guess I am wrong in thinking that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    What else could it mean?
    The second linked article quotes him as saying he slammed his locker door (apparently to let Sandusky know someone else was in the locker room.) Enough? Not in my opinion but more than others did. Nothing less than him going into the shower and escorting the boy out was enough for the immediate situation, IMO.
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    I can't open the article but are you sure he didn't mean campus police? I have never heard he called 911. I'm sure after he walked in on the abuse he ended it even if it wasn't physical. I can understand being stunned by what he just saw. He called his father than night saw Paterno the next day. and continued to work with Sandusky for years after and never said a word.
    Excuse me, julieann, but I have to ask. Do you have some sort of reading comprehension problem or learning disability?

    I never said that he called 911. The fact that you somehow gleaned that from my post is ... umm, worrisome, to say the least.

    And yes, it was the campus police.

    In the email obtained by The Morning Call, McQueary wrote that he "did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police" following the alleged incident involving Sandusky, a former Penn State assistant coach, and a boy. McQueary also wrote that he "is getting hammered for handling this the right way or what I thought at the time was right."
    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    The second linked article quotes him as saying he slammed his locker door (apparently to let Sandusky know someone else was in the locker room.) Enough? Not in my opinion but more than others did. Nothing less than him going into the shower and escorting the boy out was enough for the immediate situation, IMO.
    But of course, you are right. He should have taken that boy home or to the police. I wonder what did happen to that boy immediately after the incident. I guess we may now find out soon enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5 View Post
    In what way did McQueary continue to work with Sandusky? I haven't read any of the testimony (or the report), but I thought that they had very little to do with one another after Sandusky "retired" several years before that shower incident. I guess I am wrong in thinking that.
    Worked with him was the wrong word but McQueary certainly knew Sandusky wasn't arrested for what happened and didn't inquire about it either or he would have been questioned. I'm sure the incident in 2002 wasn't the last time either one saw each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    I'm sure after he walked in on the abuse he ended it even if it wasn't physical. I can understand being stunned by what he just saw. He called his father than night saw Paterno the next day. and continued to work with Sandusky for years after and never said a word.
    He said he slammed his locker door hard, letting them know they weren't alone.
    He saw it at 9:00pm. I have no friggin clue what's so about a 20something intern calling his dad for advice about what to do when you find an uber popular and very powerful higher up in your company doing something illegal after hours. He reported it to his boss during the next possible business hours. After that it was up to his employers on how to handle illegal activity on their premises. I'm sure that he too wishes he had handled it differently or done more, but I don't really find his actions that outragous. Paterno had a dictatorship going there and it's his and the university's actions to the event that I find not really the actions of the smallest cog in the wheel, who blew the whistle but just didn't blow it loud enough for some. And of course, as MacMadam keeps reminding us, it's the serial rapist who'd been abusing this kid for years that most to blame, even if they're all going to various rings in Dante's inferno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Excuse me, julieann, but I have to ask. Do you have some sort of reading comprehension problem or learning disability?

    I never said that he called 911. The fact that you somehow gleaned that from my post is ... umm, worrisome, to say the least.

    And yes, it was the campus police.
    There is a HUGE difference between 'police' and 'campus police'; anyone whose been to university knows that. If you mean to say campus police, that is the word you should use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    There is a HUGE difference between 'police' and 'campus police'; anyone whose been to university knows that. If you mean to say campus police, that is the word you should use.
    This from the woman who thinks that the term to "go to the police" means to call 911.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    This from the woman who thinks that the term to "go to the police" means to call 911.
    You can call 911 at any time, they are always open. Especially if you feel other children may be at risk at a rapist who's name you know. Especially if you are still seeing him walking around and feel your 'boss' may not have handled the situation. McQueary wasn't a teenager he was pushing 30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    Even if these athletes are at PSU primarily for the football program, what might keep some of them from leaving is the late date that they've gotten this opportunity. The season starts in just over a month, so the athletes don't have a lot of time to decide to leave PSU, contact coaches, await their replies, visit the programs, receive offers, weigh the choices, relocate, practice with the new team and enroll in classes.
    so what? they get to keep their penn state scholarships if no one else wants them
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  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I never said that he called 911. The fact that you somehow gleaned that from my post is ... umm, worrisome, to say the least.

    And yes, it was the campus police.
    On every college campus I've been on, calls to 911 from campus phones automatically got forwarded to the campus security office. Even if you dialed 9 for an outside line, then 911, it still went to campus police. Campus police are notoriously gutless, and just want to cover up anything that will make the college look bad. If you tried to bypass that by calling the police non-emergency number, they'd just tell you that because the issue was on campus, you had to call campus police. Fraternity and sorority houses were in some lawless Wild West: campus police wouldn't get involved there because the Greek houses weren't "on campus", yet the municipal police said it was "University property".

    Maybe the situation varies from college to college--perhaps a haughty academic type will contrarily chime in--but the above could have been a factor at Penn State.

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    What is it with you people? Can't you read and understand basic English?

    When a university official says he witnessed another university employee having anal sex on university grounds, then "immediately" thereafter spoke by telephone about the incident with his father, and, after that "had discussions" with the police about what he had witnessed, it implies that he did something other than call 911.

    Indeed, why would he call 911 at that point? 911 is for emergencies, and, at that point, there was no emergency.

    Most likely, he went into the campus police station to report what he saw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    When a university official says he witnessed another university employee having anal sex on university grounds, then "immediately" thereafter spoke by telephone about the incident with his father, and, after that "had discussions" with the police about what he had witnessed, it implies that he did something other than call 911.
    The point is the same. Municipal police have a tendency to not want to address campus crime, and campus police ironically have the same reluctance. All you have to do is Google the words "under-reported campus crime" to see how crime is handled--or more accurately, not handled--at Universities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    The point is the same. Municipal police have a tendency to not want to address campus crime, and campus police ironically have the same reluctance. All you have to do is Google the words "under-reported campus crime" to see how crime is handled--or more accurately, not handled--at Universities.
    So who are you suppose to call?

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    Quote Originally Posted by moojja View Post
    So who are you suppose to call?
    Good question! Too often, these crimes just go unaddressed. In the Penn State case, it would appear that what really got things moving was the local newspaper, which was initially maligned for its reporting.

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