Lady 2: there isn't anything about me on goooogle, I mean, I must take it off if there is.....
Lady 3: The google is a terrible thing, I mean I don't want anything on there! (Overheard by millyskate on a London train.)
^^^ that's why I don't get all the boo-hooing over the players. Their stats remain intact, so professionally they aren't hurt. The bowl wins boost the school--not individual players.
Speaking generally, so much more concern has been expressed over how football players will be impacted than how the myriad rape survivors are doing. It's just a continuance of the very phenomena the Freeh report documented--placing the needs of the football program and everything associated with that at center stage to the point of placing the victims under complete erasure--yet again.
For goodness sake--it's football people. The players weren't molested over a period of years to the point where they now have memory holes, addiction issues, and daily suicidal thoughts. There's no unfairness in not being able to play a bowl game. There's no injustice in transferring schools (with scholarships intact). Perspective, people. Sheesh!
I suppose they might have personal or academic reasons for wanting to stay at PSU. Maybe the players' existing college credits won't transfer over completely to the new schools?Not to mention Penn State will lose all their top players, they have no reason to stay.
No one has forgot what happened nor are the victims being trivialized. We are capable of discussing other facets of this case.Speaking generally, so much more concern has been expressed over how football players will be impacted than how the myriad rape survivors are doing.
agalisgv -- generally speaking, I am not putting the needs of the football program ahead of the victims. As julieann said, we *are* capable of considering the impact on other innocents as well as the victims. No one here has said the impact on the players was more devastating than what happened to the young victims. It really doesn't have to be an either/or situation. One *can* have empathy for all those impacted who weren't involved in the crimes or the coverups.
Haunting the Princess of Pink since 20/07/11...
They wanted to play at Penn State under that legacy, with Joe Paterno to win games and championships. Now look at it? I wonder if they would have choose that school knowing what they know. Probably not, so if the NCAA give them the oppotunity to go, I think many will take advantage.
The language of unfairness and injustice is being bandied about frequently in discussions of the NCAA sanctions, and I think that verbiage is completely inappropriate irt the players. Personally I think the sanctions should have gone farther, but to me the NCAA bent over backwards to accommodate current players. While some inconveniences may be involved for some players, it's only an inconvenience at most in my view, and nothing approaching an injustice as some have been given to calling it. It's that type of language I take exception to, and to reiterate, I'm talking about broader discussions beyond fsu.
My BIL played football in college only because that was the only way he could get a college education. He had no interest in going pro - he did have offers. In this situation he would not have transferred. Football is not life-and-death to every player. Neither are bowl games - after all, it's an extra game they have to play & they don't even get paid for it.
And speaking of straw man arguments, I don't think your example of the doorman is remotely applicable to this situation.
Delete. Wrong Thread.
Here's an article about the pros and cons about leaving verses staying.
Your initial reaction to that was incredulousness. Then you called it bizarre. When I pointed out that follows legal reasoning, you responded you don't agree with the law.
So to better focus the discussion, do you think the officials at Penn State who knew Sandusky was molesting/raping children on their campus but did nothing to stop it (thereby allowing it to continue unabated for years) are equally guilty of child sexual abuse?
I say they are.
Oh, and btw, the recent case where the Catholic Monsignor who oversaw pedophile priests and didn't intervene to keep them out of parishes was just sentenced yesterday. He was given longer jail-time than the pedophile priest.
Food for thought.And speaking of straw man arguments, I don't think your example of the doorman is remotely applicable to this situation.
So yeah, I think it's a pretty apt parallel.
And, as a victim of sexual abuse myself, I am still incredulous at the idea that anyone is more guilty than Sandusky. He is the one who did it. No one made him do anything; it was all on HIM. I don't understand how Paterno has become this lightening rod for scorn and derision when Sandusky actually raped young adults in his care. No punishment is good enough for Sandusky IMO.
This is what I think:
The guilt of the officials at Penn State is variable. Some of them are like the bar owner who let's the mob run something illegal in his back room because they pay him to turn a blind eye. Some are like a landlord who suspects he's rented to the mob but doesn't investigate so he can claim he didn't know anything; but he kind of does know. And some are like an absentee landlord whose really does have absolutely no idea something hinky is happening on his property. These people are not all equally guilty as each other let alone equally guilty with the ones committing crimes.
The bouncer in the above example is actually a member of the gang. He's like the driver of a getaway car in a bank robbery. Maybe he didn't come in to the bank and say "give me all your money" but he committed the same crime because the job wouldn't have been successfully pulled off without his contribution. I don't see any of the officials in that role unless there was one who actively funneled boys to Sandusky to keep him happy.
Maybe Mrs. Sandusky is playing that role, but I don't know enough details as to what she did and didn't know to say that for sure. I also suspect that Sandusky abused her emotionally because pedophiles often do that their spouses. Which makes her a victim too.
As for the penalties, I think the fine should have been twice what it was at a *minimum*. But I think the stripping of the titles was petty and dumb. I also think most of the sanctions hurt the people least involved including some who are completely innocent.
If they want to punish wrong-doers, they should take away everyone's coaching credentials (well the NCAA equivalent of that) and bar them from coaching anywhere for at least 5 years but preferably more. THAT would punish people who actually did something wrong instead of players some of whom are not only victims of Sandusky but now are victims of the NCAA.
Delete. Wrong Thread.
Joe Paterno had major influence on the Penn State campus and the surrounding town. A co-worker's daughter was at Penn State a few years ago and this co-worker said you could not go one block without seeing the Paterno name or image on a store or building. She said when people spoke of Joe, it was like they were talking about a holy man. Maybe, if Paterno had gone to the police, his reputation alone would had given the police cause to formally investigate. AND, if Paterno couldn't go to the police, what about a call to child protective services? Those calls can be made anonymously.
Last edited by judiz; 07-26-2012 at 02:06 PM.
Sandusky fooled a hell of a lot of people- it's easy for us now to see him for what he is when we are distanced from the situation and when a ton of kids have come forward. But at the time? To someone closer to the situation? Not to excuse them or say that they behaved appropriately- just saying that I think they are imperfect human beings who made some huge mistakes (which deserve to be punished) and not the root of all evil.