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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andora View Post


    No, bad decisions are NOT the best you could do at that particular moment. They remain a choice you made that 9 times out of 10, you knew was not the best course of action, especially when others are involved. But more selfish motives over-rule that. To call it "the best you could do at the time" is a huge pile of self-serving, guilt-avoiding b.s.
    I see what you're saying, but I mean this in a philisophical sense...not in a self-serving, egocentric, paris hilton-y sense.

    Despite what we might think of Paris Hilton (or Craig Simpson for that matter), at any given moment, she does the best she was ever going to do at that particular moment, based on her experiences and those particular circumstances leading up to that moment. Doesn't mean she isn't tacitly a self-serving narcissist bitch too. I just mean that once something has happened, it's over, and wishing things had been done differently doesn't make it so and remains the best that that person could do at that moment in time.

    Am I too out there?

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair View Post
    I see what you're saying, but I mean this in a philisophical sense...not in a self-serving, egocentric, paris hilton-y sense.

    Despite what we might think of Paris Hilton (or Craig Simpson for that matter), at any given moment, she does the best she was ever going to do at that particular moment, based on her experiences and those particular circumstances leading up to that moment. Doesn't mean she isn't tacitly a self-serving narcissist bitch too. I just mean that once something has happened, it's over, and wishing things had been done differently doesn't make it so and remains the best that that person could do at that moment in time.

    Am I too out there?
    You had me until you said it was the best they could do. Sure, someone raised like Paris is going to act accordingly. Maybe that's the case with all involved here. But I refuse to accept "that's the best I can do/people are flawed" because it indicates a sense of avoiding responsibility for damage caused to others, and maybe to one's own future. When things all fall apart, it's easy to lay that at someone else's feet, and it's easier when you blame your own earlier bad judgement on factors beyond your control.
    "How you treat the weak is
    Your true nature calling" -- Jane's Addiction

  3. #83

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    As has been observed by far greater minds than mine, "is" doesn't equal "ought." Because a particular action is the one you chose, that doesn't mean it's the one you ought to have chosen.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
    Old, lonely, pathos-hungry, and extremely gullible

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair View Post
    I see what you're saying, but I mean this in a philisophical sense...not in a self-serving, egocentric, paris hilton-y sense.

    Despite what we might think of Paris Hilton (or Craig Simpson for that matter), at any given moment, she does the best she was ever going to do at that particular moment, based on her experiences and those particular circumstances leading up to that moment. Doesn't mean she isn't tacitly a self-serving narcissist bitch too. I just mean that once something has happened, it's over, and wishing things had been done differently doesn't make it so and remains the best that that person could do at that moment in time.

    Am I too out there?
    Thank you. Not too out there at all.
    My travel and adventure blog http://alisonanddon.wordpress.com

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    As has been observed by far greater minds than mine, "is" doesn't equal "ought." Because a particular action is the one you chose, that doesn't mean it's the one you ought to have chosen.
    I'm sorry, but that article is crap. It says a lot of social-normative things, but doesn't actually prove prove what "ought to" is outside of a strict functionalist view of the world. The example of arsenic being immoral to give to someone else is totally simplistic. I might give someone arsenic who intends to murder me, or who is an opponent in war (as an example) and it would be what I "ought" to do in the social-normative context.

    I stand by my position. We are capable of learning and growing and behaving in ways that are more positive to society, but whatever we do at any moment in time remains the best and only thing we were ever going to do.

  6. #86
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    Usually, the old wife is traded in for a newer, more attractive model. Is jamie hotter than her husbands' previous two wives?

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair View Post
    I stand by my position. We are capable of learning and growing and behaving in ways that are more positive to society, but whatever we do at any moment in time remains the best and only thing we were ever going to do.
    I'll keep that in mind next time I get rear-ended driving, or my home is broken into. After all, it was the best that person could do.
    "How you treat the weak is
    Your true nature calling" -- Jane's Addiction

  8. #88

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    Wow, I wish I'd known all this when I was a kid. Imagine all the punishments I could've talked my way out of with "But telling a lie/not finishing my homework/pulling my sister's hair was the best I could do!"
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair View Post
    You know, I'm not down with people ragging on Jamie for this. It screams of misogeny to blame her. As far as I can tell, she was broken up with David and had made no vows to Christine. Isn't Craig the one who did the douchy thing by going against his vows to his wife? Place the blame where it's squarely deserved.
    I think that a married person always bears much more responsibility when there is an affair, but I don't think that lets the other party entirely off the hook. I think you owe as much to other marriages/relationships as you expect other people to owe to yours. IOW, if you want people to respect the boundaries of your relationship, you need to respect theirs as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blair View Post
    Well, i don't know the kids, nor have i seen the video, but I imagine that their upbringings and personal experiences will colour how they treat others in the future, so, maybe they had shit lives. I don't know.
    Ah, the shit lives excuse. Yet so many people who have had shit lives manage to live lives as decent human beings, while plenty of people who have had pampered and privileged lives treat other people like crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    In the end Jamie, David and Craig all got what they deserved: marriage to serial cheaters. None had any concern for the ex-spouses and/or children left in their wake.
    I don't think that's fair, either. Just because you do something doesn't mean you do it without concern for others. There are ways to withdraw from a marriage without destroying others. Maybe they are all serial cheaters; maybe they aren't. Who knows what went on here?
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    Wow, I wish I'd known all this when I was a kid. Imagine all the punishments I could've talked my way out of with "But telling a lie/not finishing my homework/pulling my sister's hair was the best I could do!"
    wow, people are pretty unforgiving around here! 100 lashes, EVERYONE!

    I would hope that your parents realized before they did an eye for an eye to you that kids pushing boundaries is totally a normal part of growing up

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Ah, the shit lives excuse. Yet so many people who have had shit lives manage to live lives as decent human beings, while plenty of people who have had pampered and privileged lives treat other people like crap.
    Not having a shit life has more to do with good role modelling and involved parents and less to do with priviledge and being pampered.

  12. #92

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    You know what? I haven't had a shit life, but I've been through some pretty shit things, which I keep to myself. However, at the end of the day, regardless of what I've been through, I always have a choice in what I do, I have a voice and I have agency.

    Those kids in the bus incident might have had a poor upbringing, and they might not know any better because they're kids, but when it comes to adults, everyone can overcome their history and make a better choice in the moment. However, just because they can, doesn't mean they do. We all make bad choices sometimes, but I like to think that we're judged for how well we rise after a fall, rather than how far we fell with a bad decision.

    Making questionable decisions over and over doesn't to much for reputation... But in this case, there are so many parties involved, it's pretty murky. Good luck to them.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair View Post
    Not having a shit life has more to do with good role modelling and involved parents and less to do with priviledge and being pampered.
    Okay; plenty of people who have good role modelling and involved parents treat other people like crap.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  14. #94

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    Jamie Sale and Craig Simpson: A love story in photos
    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Jam...#ixzz1yYxHZHxO
    Pictures of Jamie and Craig are one thing - but to include photos with their former spouses and kids - with that headline?

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    Pictures of Jamie and Craig are one thing - but to include photos with their former spouses and kids - with that headline?
    The Vancouver Sun is edited by idiots, so this doesn't surprise me in the least.

    I'm more surprised that an organization with professional photographers on staff and access to an extensive photo library had to use photos from blogs for this feature. I'm sure they didn't bother to ask permission either.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair View Post

    I stand by my position. We are capable of learning and growing and behaving in ways that are more positive to society, but whatever we do at any moment in time remains the best and only thing we were ever going to do.
    I would simply add to the end of that sentence ....in that moment.
    My travel and adventure blog http://alisonanddon.wordpress.com

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I don't think a lot of people do the best they can; I think that most of us do things that aren't the best and then justify our behavior by saying that happiness is the most important thing (our own, of course) and by rationalizing that everyone else will be better off in the long run, too.

    It seems to me that life is often as messy as we make it.
    That reminds me of Rielle Hunter's assertion that she has no regrets about falling in love with a married man. With the justification that the marriage was already shaky, so, really, she did everyone a favor....or something like that.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...-rock-concert/

  18. #98
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    I've never seen photos of Jamie's first wedding before. Love the tiara, but, uh, what's with the sleeves??

    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/682...?size=620x400s

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkats View Post
    I've never seen photos of Jamie's first wedding before. Love the tiara, but, uh, what's with the sleeves??

    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/682...?size=620x400s
    It's a coat. The dress looked like this http://img2-1.timeinc.net/people/i/2.../dpelltier.jpg

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    I haven't found that to be the case. Usually if anyone is happier, it's the one who did the dumping. If nothing else, the person dumped is going to be worse off financially, and the person doing the dumping is already with someone, so they are moving into another relationship with more financial upside. Or maybe she is really sad that her marriage is over, and will now take a financial hit she may never recover from.
    And this is why I'm not a believer in completely sacrificing a career to stay at home. You never know what might happen. Even if the husband doesn't leave - what happens if he dies suddenly? Believing yourself a victim doesn't help anyone.

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