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  1. #21
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    Sarah ruined her reputation in part by showing up in terrible shape for the following competitive season, then showing up in pathetic shape for her season of skating with Stars on Ice, unable to complete even double jumps cleanly, and being incredibly slow and heavy on the ice.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    4CCs didn't exist until something like '99; IMO, it doesn't have the history or prestige of Europeans because it is so recent.
    No it doesn't have the history or prestige of Europeans. But Europeans isn't the competition it once was. And 4CC is arguably just as good competition and at times has been more competitive than Europeans. And fortunately gets taken serious as a competition now days.

  3. #23
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    During the first years of Europeans non-European countries took part in those championships as well. Later they changed it into an event for European countries only.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by DimaToe View Post
    So going through all of the "Survivor" threads on here I've seen people dismissing skater's victories because of a supposed weak field during that competition. So it got me thinking, do you feel that some world/Olympic titles are worth more than others? (Ex. 2006 vs. 2010 Oly ladies) Or are all olympic/world titles equal, regardless of the level of competition?

    I'd really like to see what you all think
    A gold is a gold. The ultimate prize for athletes should be the OGM. But it doesn't mean an athlete who doesn't achieve the ultimate prize/OGM is a lesser athlete.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadya View Post
    During the first years of Europeans non-European countries took part in those championships as well. Later they changed it into an event for European countries only.
    It was not during the first years, because Euros date back to 1890's for Men and 1930's for Ladies.
    IIRC, Euros were opened to North American skaters post-World War II, in 1947 and 1948 only. It was to thank North America for participating in WWII.
    After 1948, they decided to stop it (maybe because they won Men and Ladies titles !!!).

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PashaFan View Post
    I was waiting for the Ando bashing. I'm waiting for the Butyrskaya hate.
    It get's old real fast
    In terms of a performance I remember Kwan winning Lalique in 96' as much as her Olympic silver in 98'. Or Ando's free skate at the Worlds in 2010 as much as Yamaguchi winning the Worlds in 91'.
    So for me it's the enjoyment of the programe not the end result.
    Results in the past have made me want to stick my head in the oven !.
    Affection for skaters are what drive our memories & how important they are IMO.
    How did I bash Ando? I didn't even mention Butyrskaya (plus I like her skating).

    Glad to see you pretty much agree with the rest of my post though, even if you don't agree with my examples.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    I think it depends on the impact, maybe? Take, for example, Kimmie Meissner's first world championship and Michelle Kwan's first world championship.

    Michelle's performances at those worlds shot her into another level above every one else she was competing against. She became IT. the one to beat. and then there is the whole "transformation" thing that some ladies have tried to do but it just always falls flat. (how many times do we see "this is her salome" and...its the same as what they were doing before). It was a legendary moment in skating.
    1996 was Michelle's third world championships having come 4th in Birmingham in 1995, and 8th in 1994. 2006 Worlds was Kimmie's first world championships, though she obvioulsy competed in the Olympics a few weeks before.

  8. #28
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    Gold is gold IMO. One world title is equal to another; however, the performances and/or circumstances are different in every competition. As a result, some wins are more exciting, dramatic, controversial, etc. than others. It comes down to what sticks out in your memory.

    Using Michelle as an example, I see her win at the 2000 worlds as her best b/c the way she won and the drama that went with it. She was 3rd after the SP and skated first in the last group which is always a bad draw b/c the judges have to leave room for the other top skaters. Michelle went out and delivered a flawless 7-triple program complete with 3-3, excellent speed, fire and attack...but she had to wait to see what would happen with Maria and Irina. In the end Michelle winning the LP won her the title, but there was some shuffling that happened due to Irina beating Maria and the standings flip-flopping or something. Point is it was exciting and drama-filled...it stands out for me b/c Michelle had to come out swinging in order to win and she did.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Sarah ruined her reputation in part by showing up in terrible shape for the following competitive season, then showing up in pathetic shape for her season of skating with Stars on Ice, unable to complete even double jumps cleanly, and being incredibly slow and heavy on the ice.
    Didn't she grow 20 inches after the Olympics?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    Didn't she grow 20 inches after the Olympics?
    Maybe sideways...oh, that was mean. I'm sorry...

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Maybe sideways...oh, that was mean. I'm sorry...
    ...Yeah it was, But you do bring up a good point, even though she did grow taller after her olympic win, she was not in the best of shape (for an elite athlete) when 2003 worlds came around.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawnie View Post
    It's been a decade since Sarah won and she is pretty much forgotten. For skating fans she is known as the one hit wonder and luckiest Olympic Champion of all time. To casuals, she's Sarah Who?
    Well, that really has nothing to do with anything that I am talking about.

    Most casual fans don't remember anything from any Olympics after 10 years. Being Olympic Champion is not what it once was back in the 80's and prior.

    The US has had 4 Olympic champions since 1992 (Kristy, Tara, Sara, Evan) and NONE of them are a sort of pop culture icon the way Dorthy, Brian B, etc...were (and still are).

    My point was that Sarah's win will be regarded as a great moment in Olympic history. (not for me LOL but in general)

  13. #33
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    There are certain skaters who haven't cracked top 15 in the World (Viktor Pfeifer, Jeremy Ten, Sergei Dobrin, Joey Russell, Jamal Othman) that I enjoy watching way more than Evan Lysacek or Evgeni Plushenko, so for me the Olympic and World title doesn't hold much weight at all. It's how you move me as a performer that matters.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    Well, that really has nothing to do with anything that I am talking about.

    Most casual fans don't remember anything from any Olympics after 10 years. Being Olympic Champion is not what it once was back in the 80's and prior.

    The US has had 4 Olympic champions since 1992 (Kristy, Tara, Sara, Evan) and NONE of them are a sort of pop culture icon the way Dorthy, Brian B, etc...were (and still are).

    My point was that Sarah's win will be regarded as a great moment in Olympic history. (not for me LOL but in general)

    Actually, I'd consider Kristi pretty relevant in pop culture especially after her DWTS appearance. People know who she is as much as Dorothy and Boitano.

    I understand what you are saying about Sarah's win but I have to disagree with it being one of the great moments in Olympic history.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    My point was that Sarah's win will be regarded as a great moment in Olympic history. (not for me LOL but in general)


    In general, so you mean in her own house?

    I think she was a very lucky skater, skating the best when everyone else didn't. But it was really only one competition out of her whole career and I don't even regard her as a great skater, gold or not/Olympics or not.

    It's like when a NASCAR driver who is in 8th and 7 cars ahead of him happen to crash and the one is 8th place wins. Is it a win? Sure, how meaningful is it, to me not very.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post


    In general, so you mean in her own house?

    I think she was a very lucky skater, skating the best when everyone else didn't. But it was really only one competition out of her whole career and I don't even regard her as a great skater, gold or not/Olympics or not.

    It's like when a NASCAR driver who is in 8th and 7 cars ahead of him happen to crash and the one is 8th place wins. Is it a win? Sure, how meaningful is it, to me not very.
    It was not a great moment or meaningful for me in any way, as well.

    So when I say in general, I mean exactly that. In general. It was a great Olympic story of an underdog seizing the moment. A Cinderella story. I don't think the analogy you used would apply here...I would think it would apply more to 2006. 2002 Ladies had DRAMA. MK was in first place until Irina skated...everyone thinking Irina won...the results flip flopping...mass confusion, seeing Robin drag Sarah on the floor (barf). It was all very dramatic-just want viewers want to see during the Olympics. That is all I mean.

    That is all I am saying about it. I really don't like Sarah all that much to get in a big debate about it.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    It was not during the first years, because Euros date back to 1890's for Men and 1930's for Ladies.
    IIRC, Euros were opened to North American skaters post-World War II, in 1947 and 1948 only. It was to thank North America for participating in WWII.
    After 1948, they decided to stop it (maybe because they won Men and Ladies titles !!!).
    That's untrue. Euros were open to non european people before 1948. I can't say it's been since forever, there's no non european skaters on the tables before 1934, but it was certainly the case before world war II also.
    1934 Maribel Vinson 3rd. Taking a year to train in Europe after school, I don't remember where but I read that's what started the trend to go oversee to train with the english masters ; now it's the reverse situation (again, as I understand it so if there's error, fell free).
    1936 Toshikazu Katayama 7th (men), Kazuyoshi Oimatsu 9th (men), Tsugio Hasegawa gave up (men), Etsuko Inada 9th (ladies), all Japanese citizens a few years after the JSF creation in 1929 (gaining experience ? showing they entered the skating world ? it's only a guess).
    Source : 1892 - 1967 Figure skating results, Benjamin T. Wright, ISU publication.

    I'm not sure it was to thanks NA for participating in WWII. The rules said that whoever affiliated to a european figure skating association could enter European Championships : it wasn't a birthplace question. I thought it would had been because the fields were reduced by the war but it shouldn't be, the number of skaters (minus the three non european in 1947 and four in 1948) was around the same as before they stopped internationals competitions in 1939.
    Then after 1947 and 1948 they may had thought it should be skaters from Europe on the top of the europeans.

    As for FCC, at first, only a few big names played the game in singles from north america (Stojko is the only one I remember in fact) and then the big federations used it as a ranking ISU points winning event. I don't know whether the first in ladies and men in USA & CAN just said no or if it was their federation's choice to send the skaters ranked 3-7 at their nationals. I always remember the ladies in USA (Hughes, Kwan, Cohen) being asked and turning down the oportunity but it's maybe a wrong memory. Dance as always been different because I guess it's a free gold for depending of the year, USA or CAN, and maybe they thought it would gain them power or credibility in the eyes of the judges to place higher at worlds. In pairs, it's not the big names didn't came it's just outside them, there was not a lot of competition to expect. All the majors powerhouses sent their skaters though (CHN, CAN, USA). This is not working for olympics skaters during olympic year. Too close to go there, only Asada 2010 who needed it for others reasons showed up.

  18. #38
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    A World Champion is just that ...the best in the world for that season. It is something exclusive that should never be discounted no matter the circumstances.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by used2skate View Post
    A World Champion is just that ...the best in the world for that season. It is something exclusive that should never be discounted no matter the circumstances.
    Not the best in the world for that season, just the best in that particular competition.

  20. #40

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    The Olympic Gold is certainly the most important prize in figure skating. Why?

    1) Because the Olympics are every elite athlete's dream. (Have you ever heard an elite figure skater say: "nah, the Olympics are no big deal..." ???)

    2) Because the Olys are the highest pressure event for any athlete.

    3) Because the Olys get 20 times more press and viewership than any World Championship event.

    4) Because Olympic Gold Medalists are privy to very high endorsement deals.

    There are many more reasons. Obviously, not all Olympic Gold Medalists are the best in their sport, but they delivered when it counted and, under that kind of pressure, that counts for a great deal.

    I never heard of any FS fans devaluing the OGM until Michelle Kwan failed to win one in two different Olympic tries. (No, I'm not bashing. But it's true.)
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

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