The Kings of Quad

[johndockley92]

^^ Any video of it clean in practice?

[kukkura]

Do we have a quad estimate for Li Chengjiang? He skated in international competitions for over a decade and had a solid 4t.

[umronnie]

Updates quad count after Euros (remember, only international competitions count):

1 Joubert – 98
2 Plushenko (as long as he hadn't announced his retirement he's still on the list) – 94
3 Menshov – 46
4 Fernandez – 37 (moved up from 5 with that amazing FS, subject to change after 4CC)
5 Reynolds – 36
6 Voronov – 34
7 Verner – 28
8 Chan – 27
9 Takahashi – 26

[leafygreens]

I was in the stands and saw Sasha land that quad. It was a good one.

If only Sasha tried it at several competitions...

[Cherub721]

Whee for Joubert at 98!

While watching Euros and US Nats this weekend, I was wondering if anyone has ever tried two quads in the second half of the program. Max Aaron did both 3axels (in fact six jumping passes!) in the second half of his program, but both quads in the first part. I think Fernandez, Chan, and Joubert attempt/have attempted a quad in the second half (Goebel too, IIRC, and that was pre-bonus), but has anyone ever tried two quads in the second half? I wonder if we'll ever see it. It would take a tremendous amount of energy.

[umronnie]

^^^
I haven't checked that, but I doubt anyone has. It would be incredibly risky to put both quads in the second half. It is risky enough to try one quad in the second half. Although I believe that when doing 3 quads the third one is usually in the second half – partly for bonus and partly because doing 3 quads back to back is probably even more exhausting.

But, since I have some more interesting data in my spreadsheet I can tell you how many 2- and 3-quad programs our protagonists attempted (I think for this purpose the attempt itself is more important than the result):

Menshov: 16 2-quad programs
Plushenko: 15 2-quad programs
Joubert: 11 2-quad long programs, 1 2-quad short, 1 3-quad long (13)
Reynolds: 7 2-quad programs, 2 2-quad short, 3 3-quad long (12)
Fernandez: 7 2-quad programs, 2 3-quad long (10)
Chan: 10 2-quad programs
Takahashi: 5 2-quad programs
Verner: 3 2-quad programs

BTW, I believe no. 10 on the quad list would be Gachinski with 17 quads. He had attempted 4 2-quad programs.Expect Hanyu (15) to catch him by the end of the season. Hanyu has done 2 2-quad programs.

Other active skaters to try 2 quads in a program: Brezina (3), Hanyu (2), Amodio (1), Dornbush (1)

There had been more multi-quad programs, of course (Lambiel 16, Goebel 7 and 6, Yagudin 10, also Honda, Sandhu, Zhang and Li, for whom I haven't collected any data).

[Cherub721]

Interesting! I thought Verner had attempted many more 2-quad programs, but I guess he usually pops rather than falls. Menshov at the top surprises me, I don't know why. Fernandez will surely shoot up the list for 3-quad attempt programs.

[Zemgirl]

Joubert is next scheduled to compete at the Challenge Cup. We'll see what he can come up with there...

At the rate he's going, it's beginning to seem quite likely that Javi will get to 100 at some point.

[Glacier cat]

I'm more interested in a success rate than number of quad. Can anyone list?

[umronnie]

I'm more interested in a success rate than number of quad. Can anyone list?

see posts #7 and #49 upthread

[os168]

^^^
I haven't checked that, but I doubt anyone has. It would be incredibly risky to put both quads in the second half. It is risky enough to try one quad in the second half. Although I believe that when doing 3 quads the third one is usually in the second half – partly for bonus and partly because doing 3 quads back to back is probably even more exhausting.

But, since I have some more interesting data in my spreadsheet I can tell you how many 2- and 3-quad programs our protagonists attempted (I think for this purpose the attempt itself is more important than the result):

Menshov: 16 2-quad programs
Plushenko: 15 2-quad programs
Joubert: 11 2-quad long programs, 1 2-quad short, 1 3-quad long (13)
Reynolds: 7 2-quad programs, 2 2-quad short, 3 3-quad long (12)
Fernandez: 7 2-quad programs, 2 3-quad long (10)
Chan: 10 2-quad programs
Takahashi: 5 2-quad programs
Verner: 3 2-quad programs

BTW, I believe no. 10 on the quad list would be Gachinski with 17 quads. He had attempted 4 2-quad programs.Expect Hanyu (15) to catch him by the end of the season. Hanyu has done 2 2-quad programs.

Other active skaters to try 2 quads in a program: Brezina (3), Hanyu (2), Amodio (1), Dornbush (1)

There had been more multi-quad programs, of course (Lambiel 16, Goebel 7 and 6, Yagudin 10, also Honda, Sandhu, Zhang and Li, for whom I haven't collected any data).

This is an amazing list, miles difference from the Olympics, thanks large part to Plushy's complaints and how COP can encourage better technical content when done right. (They neglected and messed up entirely with the ladies, but that is another thread.)

Among the next generation of skaters, Hanyu is the one to watch for sure, him and Javier train together will light up the quads fireworks. What is so exciting is that he hasn't even reached his full potential yet. I didn't realize Gachinski had so many, but then his programs are usually devoid of decent transitions which sure makes things easier. Actually I thought the list is a bit misleading, because they are spaced out over a career, so those who had longer careers like Menshov, Plushy would naturally have more quads programs. However, if you account divide that by the years of career they had, to focus on quad density over a season, then you might come up with a more accurate reflection of the true quads meisters.

[umronnie]

This is an amazing list, miles difference from the Olympics, thanks large part to Plushy's complaints and how COP can encourage better technical content when done right. (They neglected and messed up entirely with the ladies, but that is another thread.)

An interesting point. I was looking at the number of quads attempeted at US Nationsl - a competition not necessarily known for a multitude of quads. More quads were attempted at Omaha last week than at Vancouver 3 years ago! I checked out quad attempts at WC and OLY since the beginning of CoP and if you like, I can post those later.

Among the next generation of skaters, Hanyu is the one to watch for sure, him and Javier train together will light up the quads fireworks. What is so exciting is that he hasn't even reached his full potential yet. I didn't realize Gachinski had so many, but then his programs are usually devoid of decent transitions which sure makes things easier. Actually I thought the list is a bit misleading, because they are spaced out over a career, so those who had longer careers like Menshov, Plushy would naturally have more quads programs. However, if you account divide that by the years of career they had, to focus on quad density over a season, then you might come up with a more accurate reflection of the true quads meisters.

Actualy Plushy and Menshov are the same age - Menshov will be 30 next month. It's true that Plushy got an earlier start - but I guess that is due to rare talent. Same thing with Joubert and VDP - although Kevin is a year older they both broke out at the same time and skated for many years, but Joubert has landed 5 times more quads than VDP.

Obviously you can't expect 18 year old Hanyu to have landed as many quads as 22 year old Fernandez, not to mention the old horses, but is looking at count per year fair? Some skaters get more opportunities than others - some get 1 GP invitation, some get 2 and manage the GPF, as well. One could miss a competition for illness or injury. Some attend a ton of Senior Bs and some prefer to skip 4CC. You can't land any jump if you're not competing.

Anyway, here's the list of quads-per-year, going by whole senior careers (complete seasons off, like Plushy's semi-retirement or Takahashi's surgury, were not included in the count):

Joubert – 98 quads over 13 seasons, average 7.5/season

Plushenko – 94 / 13 / 7.2

Menshov – 46 / 7 / 6.6

Reynolds – 36 / 6 / 6.0

Fernandez – 37 / 7 / 5.3

Chan – 27 / 6 / 4.5

Voronov – 34 / 8 / 4.3

Gachinski – 17 / 4 / 4.3

Verner – 28 / 8 / 3.5

Takahashi – 26 / 9/ 2.9

BTW, Yagudin goes 56 / 6 / 9.3...

BTW2, Fernandez's (say that 3 times fast) career average is 5.3, but if we look at this season alone we will get 15 and there's still WC...

[Zemgirl]

Actualy Plushy and Menshov are the same age - Menshov will be 30 next month. It's true that Plushy got an earlier start - but I guess that is due to rare talent. Same thing with Joubert and VDP - although Kevin is a year older they both broke out at the same time and skated for many years, but Joubert has landed 5 times more quads than VDP.

Obviously you can't expect 18 year old Hanyu to have landed as many quads as 22 year old Fernandez, not to mention the old horses, but is looking at count per year fair? Some skaters get more opportunities than others - some get 1 GP invitation, some get 2 and manage the GPF, as well. One could miss a competition for illness or injury. Some attend a ton of Senior Bs and some prefer to skip 4CC. You can't land any jump if you're not competing.

Anyway, here's the list of quads-per-year, going by whole senior careers (complete seasons off, like Plushy's semi-retirement or Takahashi's surgury, were not included in the count):

BTW2, Fernandez's (say that 3 times fast) career average is 5.3, but if we look at this season alone we will get 15 and there's still WC...

A few things:
1. KvdP is two years older than Joubert and also had a head start on his senior career (competed at 2000 Euros & Worlds, when Joubert was still in juniors).
2. Joubert's in his 12th, not 13th, senior season.
3. Fernandez is in his 7th season but wasn't skating senior full time the first year or two, and only started doing quads in 2009-10, so the numbers are even more impressive. Chan didn't attempt any quads in his first few seasons, either.

But it's certainly true that longevity is not enough for a skater to get up to a large number of quads.

[umronnie]

A few things:
1. KvdP is two years older than Joubert and also had a head start on his senior career (competed at 2000 Euros & Worlds, when Joubert was still in juniors).
2. Joubert's in his 12th, not 13th, senior season.
3. Fernandez is in his 7th season but wasn't skating senior full time the first year or two, and only started doing quads in 2009-10, so the numbers are even more impressive. Chan didn't attempt any quads in his first few seasons, either.

But it's certainly true that longevity is not enough for a skater to get up to a large number of quads.

Re 2 - You are right. Moving to 2013 mixed my numbers. It's 12 for both Joubert and Plush (hangs head in shame). So it's -
Joubert 98 / 12 / 8.2
Plushy 94 / 12 / 7.8

Re 3 - That is correct for most skaters, even old Menshov. Actualy, for the bunch above, only Joubert, Plushenko and Reynolds started their senior career with a quad. Do you want me to count since their first quad attempt?

[umronnie]

Updates quad count after 4CC:

1 Joubert – 98
2 Plushenko – 94
3 Menshov – 46
4 Reynolds – 39 (pulled back up from 5th)
5 Fernandez – 37
6 Voronov – 34
7 Verner – 28
8 Chan, Takahashi – 27
10 Hanyu, Gachinski – 17

Up next - Challenge Cup 22-23 Feb. Will Joubert break 100?

[umronnie]

With 2 quads at the Challenge Cup (one 4T in the short, one in the free) Brian Joubert became the first man ever to land 100 quads. Congratulations, Brian!

Next up – the world championship in March. Plushenko (#2, 94 quads), Menshov (#3, 46) and Voronov (#5, 34) won't be there. Will Reynolds (#4, 39) rotate all his quads? If he doesn't, will Fernandez (#5, 37) catch him? Takahashi and Chan are currently tied for #8 with 27 – who will break free? Will they pass Tomas Verner (#7, 28)? More after the break...

[Zemgirl]

With 2 quads at the Challenge Cup (one 4T in the short, one in the free) Brian Joubert became the first man ever to land 100 quads. Congratulations, Brian

Joubert! It may not be the most important achievement, but it's still pretty neat and a testament to longevity, hard work, and willingness to push himself and take risks.

Now if only someone would report on this somewhere more official, I'll finally be able to source that Wikipedia claim

[l'etoile]

That is so awesome! Great job, Brian! The gap between top 2 and the rest is so eye-opening.

[professordeb]

Congrats to Joubert on reaching 100! Quads, that is, not his age

[lala]

Joubert 98 / 12 / 8.2
Plushy 94 / 12 / 7.8


But you don't forget, Plushy had only 7 competitions( COR 2009, RusNat 2010, 2012, 2013, ECH 2010, 2012 and OG 2010) since 2006. That aren't complet seasons

BTW great job Umronnie! THX! Congrats to Brian!