The Kings of Quad

[Jenny]

Something happened in quad history at the 1997 Champion Series Final (precurser to GPF) - I think it was several quads landed in one competition? Those were the days - check out this lineup.

[gkelly]

Something happened in quad history at the 1997 Champion Series Final (precurser to GPF) - I think it was several quads landed in one competition?

Yes, it was the first time that three ratified quads were landed in the same competition.

Stojko landed the first clean quad toe-triple toe combination ever in competition.

Kulik landed his own first clean quad in competition.

Urmanov didn't set a record, but it was his first clean quad since 1992.

[Jenny]

Off topic I know, but that was an exciting event - my first live competition I remember entering the arena for the first time during men's practice, hearing the music and seeing the soaring jumps, and not believing that I was actually going to see so many great skaters compete in person - I had previously only been to shows. In the oft-shown footage of Elvis' quad combo, I can be seen in the stands.

Happy memories!

[sk8indel]

I've been working on a stat project on men's quads (shameless self-promotion of Stat Project Thread) but here is all of my data. Joubert and Fernandez's quad attempts and points garnered for such in the last 3 seasons are included.

Here's a spreadsheet of my data. There's a more concise overview after the pages of statistics.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_r...jY1NXJrNFBLcFE

[jjane45]

I have updated the files and added a few skaters I did not consider when I started this project. Would you care to guess who – of the skaters currently competing – leads the group charging after Joubert and Plushy?

The curious mind wants to know...

Such a wonderful thread, thanks a ton!

[blue_idealist]

This isn't about quads, but does anyone know why there were only three (four counting Meno and Sand who WD) pairs and five dance teams in the competition, instead of the usual 6?

[gkelly]

This isn't about quads, but does anyone know why there were only three (four counting Meno and Sand who WD) pairs and five dance teams in the competition, instead of the usual 6?

You mean at the 1997 Champions Series Final?

There wasn't "the usual 6" at the beginning of the series. It was "the usual one warmup group" -- which is 6 for singles, 5 for dance, 4 for pairs.

Later, after the series was renamed Grand Prix, they added more pairs and dancers. There was also an elimination phase and a second free program for a couple of years. The format we have now didn't start until about 2002.

[umronnie]

Amazing thread, great work going through all the stats!

Pretty incredible to think that Plushenko and Joubert are so far ahead of everyone else. Really highlights how unique they are for competing at the top level for so long. It still boggles my mind that Plushenko first competed at Worlds in 98 and is still a relevant medal contender 15 years later. Can you imagine how many quads and/or World titles he could have had he competed more post-2006?

Who has the highest success rate between the two of them?

Also interesting about Elvis "only" landing 20-something quads yet having such an impact. I think the impact would be seen in his win percentage when landing the quad (at least in the 90s). The quad was his edge over the rest of the field. Without it he was hard to beat, but with it he was nearly unbeatable. At least that's how i remember it and that was certainly the mentality that pushed others to start doing it.

Here's hoping Plushenko and Joubert can both cross the 100 mark before they retire (one would think next year).

I think 100 quads are about what the body can take. To land 100 you have to train - what? 1000? 5000? I have no idea. How many of those hard landings can a body take? Plushy is held together with wire and duct tape as it is, and Joubert has been missing more competitions in recent years for injuries. Had Plushenko gone on beyond 2006 I'm note sure he would have made it to Vancouver. Note that both Plushenko and Joubert are now on their 12th senior season.

As for their success rate on the quad - Plushy is slightly ahead with 85% to Joubert's 81%.

[umronnie]

So now to the next skaters on the current quad-masters list. None of them has come close to Yagudin, yet, but some of them (I'm thinking Fernandez) may do it yet.

From 9th to 4th (seeing as Jobert is #1 and Plushenko #2):
9: Takahashi (age 26) - 26 quads, 55% success rate
8: Chan (age 22)- 27 quads, 77%
7: Verner (age 26)- 28 quads, 60%
6: Voronov (age 25)- 32 quads, 91% (!) - did you see this coming?
5: Fernandez (age 21)- 33 quads, 85%
4: Reynolds (age 22)- 36 quads, 61%

Now I challenge you again to guess who's #3 on the list.

BTW, I have no idea who's #10. I have Hanyu with 15, but I'm sure there are other skaters with numbers in the 20s or at least higher 10s.

[screech]

Now I challenge you again to guess who's #3 on the list.

Since he's making a 'comeback'... Sandhu?

[Zemgirl]

So now to the next skaters on the current quad-masters list. None of them has come close to Yagudin, yet, but some of them (I'm thinking Fernandez) may do it yet.
...
6: Voronov (age 25)- 32 quads, 91% (!) - did you see this coming?

Now I challenge you again to guess who's #3 on the list.

After mentioning Verner and Fernandez yesterday, I did start to think that Voronov, being a veteran and a jumper, might be on the list. No idea who's number 3, though. If he hadn't retired, I'd have guessed KvdP; as an alternate option, I'm going to go with Menshov, who's been around for years and does tons of senior Bs.

Re Joubert missing competitions, that's not really due to training quads - some of these were because he was sick, last season's back injury came from a fall on a spin, and the foot injury in the Olympic season happened when he spiked his blade into his foot on a 3Lz in training.

[umronnie]

After mentioning Verner and Fernandez yesterday, I did start to think that Voronov, being a veteran and a jumper, might be on the list. No idea who's number 3, though. If he hadn't retired, I'd have guessed KvdP; as an alternate option, I'm going to go with Menshov, who's been around for years and does tons of senior Bs.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner! Menshov, who will be 30 next month, has landed at least 46 quads in international competition for a 84% success rate and is #3 on the current quad masters list. A pity he won't be at Euros.

I say "at least" because I am missing data from some of his early competitions (such as NRW 2007 and Cup of Nice 2006,2004 – I don't think there are protocols or youtube clips anywhere. So he could actually be over 50, although early on his success rate wasn't so high.

BTW, VDP was well known for his 3-3s and 3-3-3s, but he didn’t try too many quads. In his 13 seasons of competition he landed 19 quads at 70%. If he wss still skating, maybe he's be #10.

I haven't looked at Sandhu. It's difficult to find data for old competitions and no data except youtube clips for competitions held under 6.0. Let's see if he actually makes it back first.

[lala]

Yes, you are right!!!
Plushenko first 4-3-2 combo in history http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aGZXEs4dIE 1999 NHK Trophy
first perfect 4T-3T-3L !! combo in history ( in SLC landed in it, but wasn't perfect) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7WXLsJlAiw fantastic! D. Button had no words about Plushy's skating

[Zemgirl]

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner! Menshov, who will be 30 next month, has landed at least 46 quads in international competition for a 84% success rate and is #3 on the current quad masters list. A pity he won't be at Euros.

I say "at least" because I am missing data from some of his early competitions (such as NRW 2007 and Cup of Nice 2006,2004 – I don't think there are protocols or youtube clips anywhere. So he could actually be over 50, although early on his success rate wasn't so high.

Menshov wasn't at 2006 Coupe de Nice, but he finished second in 2007. The protocols for 2006 are actually available, but the link for 2007 doesn't seem to work.

[The Accordion]

8: Chan (age 22)- 27 quads, 77%

Surely a lot of people didn't see that coming either? For some FSUers this number must be mind bogglingly high compared to their version of reality?


btw - Thanks for sharing these stats! It is all very interesting and makes the whole Menshov not going to Europeans thing even worse IMO.

[Zemgirl]

8: Chan (age 22)- 27 quads, 77%

Surely a lot of people didn't see that coming either? For some FSUers this number must be mind bogglingly high compared to their version of reality?

It can hardly be a surprise considering umronnie already mentioned Chan earlier in this thread, during the off-season (see below). At an average of about 10 quads per season (or 11, if the rest of 2013 goes well for him) he should catch up to Joubert and Plushenko in the season after the Olympics. That is, the Pyeongchang Olympics .

I wrote earlier that I consider Yuzuru Hanyu most likely to get to 100, since in addition to being really good, he is so young; but on second thought, with two different quads, a high success rate and rules allowing for two in the SP, Javier Fernandez could do it, too - if he decides to continue post-Sochi.

Of the skaters in competition today I have:
Kevin Reynolds at 31 quads and a success rate of 63% (he tends to underrotate)
Takahashi at 23 and a 61% success rate
Chan at 20 and a 74% success rate
Brezina (mentioned above as "the next king") at only 7 quads and a success rate of 58%.
Will check up Fernandez and Amodio next. Anyone else?

Of course, Joubert and Plushenko are still competing, as well...

[The Accordion]

It can hardly be a surprise considering umronnie already mentioned Chan earlier in this thread, during the off-season (see below). At an average of about 10 quads per season (or 11, if the rest of 2013 goes well for him) he should catch up to Joubert and Plushenko in the season after the Olympics. That is, the Pyeongchang Olympics .

Sorry I should have been more clear. I meant that some people might be shocked that Chan's success rate is 77%

[Cherub721]

Keep in mind what umronnie posted on page 1: As for what I considered a landed quad - basically any fully rotated quad that the skater stood on. Turn-outs, step-outs and hands were accepted. Rotated quads so flawed that they received a -3 GoE, even without the fall deduction, I considered "incomplete" and not landed.

So Chan's 77% "successful quads" could include quads with negative GOE and other mistakes. I think if only completely clean rotated quads landed on one foot were counted, Plushenko would be far ahead, because he rarely has any step outs or mistakes at all.

[Zemgirl]

So Chan's 77% "successful quads" could include quads with negative GOE and other mistakes. I think if only completely clean rotated quads landed on one foot were counted, Plushenko would be far ahead, because he rarely has any step outs or mistakes at all.

Of course, this applies to the other skaters too. I agree that if only rotated quads that would be considered clean by 6.0 standards - landed cleanly on one foot - were counted, Plushenko would likely be well ahead; Joubert sometimes steps out of his.

[Holley Calmes]

I've been a fan of young Voronov for some time....I just haven't been writing about him lately-or about anything on here for that matter-too much work. I know Sergei has his shortcomings and he certainly isn't in the ballpark with Plushy and Jourbert...but I like the kid. OK, I don't like his costumes and choreography...I hated he left Urmanov. I think he could be a much better skater with other "packaging." I think he has heart, like my ultimate fave, Yagudin. And he's cute, too! That's always a plus.

So I am so glad to see Mr. V mentioned. 91% ain't too shabby, as we say in the South.