View Poll Results: Who is the weakest link among these past champions

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  • Grishuk & Platov

    3 1.48%
  • Krylova & Ovsiannikov

    1 0.49%
  • Anissina & Peizerat

    1 0.49%
  • Fusar-Poli & Margaglio

    99 48.77%
  • Lobacheva & Averbukh

    17 8.37%
  • Bourne & Kraatz

    20 9.85%
  • Navka & Kostomarov

    7 3.45%
  • Denkova & Staviski

    4 1.97%
  • Delobel & Schoenfelder

    5 2.46%
  • Domnina & Shabalin

    26 12.81%
  • Virtue & Moir

    13 6.40%
  • Davis & White

    7 3.45%
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  1. #21
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    I would put DomShabs above FP&M just because they skated a stunning CD in Vancouver.

    Although their aboriginal dance OD and Double life of Veronique FD belonged in the bin, their Tango Romantica was one of the best I had ever seen.
    Both V&M and D&W did fine, but Domshabs were a class above them I felt.

    Oh how I miss watching compulsory dance.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    I would put DomShabs above FP&M just because they skated a stunning CD in Vancouver.

    Although their aboriginal dance OD and Double life of Veronique FD belonged in the bin, their Tango Romantica was one of the best I had ever seen.
    Both V&M and D&W did fine, but Domshabs were a class above them I felt.

    Oh how I miss watching compulsory dance.
    I actually didn't mid the double life part. It was the requiem for a dream part that I hated.
    And their tango was definitely up there in the group of best compulsories of all time

  3. #23

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    I think Navka & Kostomarov definetly deserved their 2004 World and 2006 Olympic title. 2005 Worlds was a disaster when it comes to dance (actually all categories were pretty blah) and they were at home so they won by default.

  4. #24
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    Easy : Fusar-Poli&Margaglio, they would have never been world champions.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiK View Post
    I think Navka & Kostomarov definetly deserved their 2004 World and 2006 Olympic title. 2005 Worlds was a disaster when it comes to dance (actually all categories were pretty blah) and they were at home so they won by default.
    Well I voted FP/M I still can't think of them as world champions
    They did skate a blinder of a FD on the night though

    I still love A/P BLN FD though They should have won 99 with their MITIM FD K/O Jungle programme

    Denstas should have won worlds 2004 IMO Their Handel was

    The person who's voted G/P out really

  6. #26
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    Picking here was way too easy - I went with the clear leaders.
    (Pitty we don't have a death stare smiley yet )

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Delobel & Schoenfelder only had a great FD, and a mediocre OD, and not even very good CDs at the 2005 Worlds and 2006 Olympics..
    In what world? If D&S had a "not even very good" CD at the 2006 Olympics, than B&A had a disastrous, godawful CD.

    Say what you will about F-P&M, they skated closer together and with more sharpness than a few of the other teams they are losing to, and they had one of the best, if not the best, Latin program ever.

    Lobacheva and Avberbuch or Bourne & Kraatz should be the first out.

    Actually Cherub's post gives a good argument as to why B&K should be out first.

    I only thought they had strong OD interpretation early in their career, like 1993 and 1994.
    I watched an early FD of theirs from either 92 or 93 recently, and couldn't believe how much better they were back then. Better unison, better lines, more finish and control, more difficult choreography, more thoughtful use of hydrolblading, less obnoxious facial expressions, etc...
    Last edited by casken; 06-13-2012 at 10:48 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by casken View Post
    less obnoxious facial expressions, etc...
    It seems that in some people's book here having any facial expressions at all is obnoxious and/or totally overdone and tacky. Maybe I am exaggerating (as, in truth, I don't remember anyone else calling facial expressions "obnoxious"), but I think it's not far from that. In any case, I don't see anything that's so terrible in Shae-Lynn's and Viktor's expressions.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Grishchuk & Platov fully deserved their 4 world championships and the 1998 OGM. Although I like Krylova-Ovssianikov a lot, their FD was not as good as G&P's Memorial. Tracy Wilson's biased commentary created a lot of negativity. G&P were the rightful winners in 98. In 94 I did not feel they deserved the OGM, but then who did? U&Z went so far away from their strengths that they opened the door for G&P. I did not feel that Torville-Dean were good enough for a gold, although they were very very good for someone returning after such a long break from competition. G&P may have won by default in 94 (but I am still disappointed with that result).
    Pretty much. I was quite disappointed with Wilson's commentary.

    I'd probably go with Usova/Zhulin in 1994, but in my magical rewriting of the event, I also have them skating their 1993 program. I make up for it by giving G/P bronze in 1992 (U/Z silver, K/P gold.).

    I did prefer K/O's 1997 FD (Masqeurade Waltz) to G/P's though (The Feeling Begins), but both were masterpieces.

    I like N/K. I actually think they were quite underrated at times (see 2002 Olympic Games). I'd love to do a comparison in commentary re: Russian pairs/dance teams from the American/Canadian side of things from when a team graduates to number one and see the change. Wilson was pretty anti-DomShabs in 2007 and they had two really good programs (well, one good program, one AMAZING program).

  10. #30
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    Had K&P come out of retirement or U&Z done Four Seasons, either would've wiped the floor with G&P in 1994. But as it was, G&P had the best of an extremely lousy batch of FDs with the most speed and best interpretation. They were lucky to win the 1994 Worlds also, with the fall (I am sure U&Z or T&D would've won had they been there and skated clean). IMO G&P deserved all their titles +1993 Worlds.

    Personally I always thought G&P had an interesting career in that they won 3 of the least challenging ice dance seasons ever (94-96 Worlds) and two of the most deep (97-98). By 1998 there were so many good teams and everyone was bringing their a-game bigtime with a lot of iconic programs (Memorial, Carmen, Romeo & Juliet, Riverdance, and the Jesus People). I guess in some way G&P probably contributed to that depth and development.
    Last edited by Cherub721; 06-14-2012 at 01:49 AM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Had K&P come out of retirement or U&Z done Four Seasons, either would've wiped the floor with G&P in 1994. But as it was, G&P had the best of an extremely lousy batch of FDs with the most speed and best interpretation. They were lucky to win the 1994 Worlds also, with the fall (I am sure U&Z or T&D would've won had they been there and skated clean). IMO G&P deserved all their titles +1993 Worlds.

    Personally I always thought G&P had an interesting career in that they won 3 of the least challenging ice dance seasons ever (94-96 Worlds) and two of the most deep (97-98). By 1998 there were so many good teams and everyone was bringing their a-game bigtime with a lot of iconic programs (Memorial, Carmen, Romeo & Juliet, Riverdance, and the Jesus People). I guess in some way G&P probably contributed to that depth and development.
    I totally disagree with G&P deserving 93 Worlds, they were lucky to come 2nd there in fact. 6 judges were suspended because of their silver medal in fact, I cant imagine the uproar if they had won.

    I agree about the 94 Games. They were a bit lucky in the end. Usova & Zhulin had a really bad FD that year, and Klimova & Ponomarenko would have easily won another gold had they returned. Torvill & Dean did admirably to be as competitive as they were considering they were in their mid 30s and had been out of amateur competition for 10 years, winning Europeans and even contending for Gold at the Games. The FD performance of G&P was way better at Europeans, where they easily and uncontroversialy won the FD by almost every judge, but their much sloppier Olympic FD was enough to eke out a split win almost by default in Lillehammer. Lucky again at the 94 Worlds with a fall which both U&Z and T&D would likely have capatilized on to win had they been there, even Moniotte & Lavanchy nearly beat them because of the fall.

    95 and 96 they were clearly the best. 97 they didnt have their best FD at Worlds but were still the dominant team, and K&O should have been 3rd in the Golden Waltz with a big trip anyway. 98 they were vurnerable but the Carmen of K&O was not good enough to beat them.

    In the end they probably deserved all their titles with the 94 Olympics being the most questionable one I guess.

  12. #32
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    People need to embrace Domnina & Shabalin's OD from the Olympics. I can't believe people still go on about that. It wasn't even that bad. I'm hoping Denkova & Staviski do really well in this game and of course Grishuk & Platov. Memorial FD is amazing.

  13. #33
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    Well, definitely FP-M first. It is amazing what politcking can get you. Poor Margaglio, he wasn't even a good skater, let alone dancer.

    Next up on the chopping block: Bourne/Kraatz. Their world title was a complete gift. All that hydroblading which I guess they considered 'ice dancing'. No thanks.
    I will not be ignored! -Me

  14. #34
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    It seems that in some people's book here having any facial expressions at all is obnoxious and/or totally overdone and tacky. Maybe I am exaggerating (as, in truth, I don't remember anyone else calling facial expressions "obnoxious"), but I think it's not far from that. In any case, I don't see anything that's so terrible in Shae-Lynn's and Viktor's expressions.
    She started resorting to this head bob/scrunchy face combo, and his facial expression became the real life version of this smilie with occasional nods to the judges or audience.

    Say what you will about Morozov, he got them to stop doing that.
    I totally disagree with G&P deserving 93 Worlds, they were lucky to come 2nd there in fact. 6 judges were suspended because of their silver medal in fact, I cant imagine the uproar if they had won.
    I agree with U&Z winning, but I don't understand why the 93 worlds judging thing diminishes that G&P were clearly one the best two teams there and you could make a case for gold either way with both teams. I can see Krylova and partner beating R&K as being controversial, becuase partner wasn't that great and didn't do too much.

    I think I'm the only person with this opinion, but if G&P ever deserved to lose to K&O, it was not 97 or 98, it was 96. G&P's OD was ok, but the FD sucked and they didn't even skate it that well at worlds, and I thought K&O's FD was a tad more intricate and better interpreted. That was the closest K&O came to G&P before G&P took it to another level in 97, and when G&P were vulnerable again in 98, Linichuk really screwed them with the way she constructed their Olympic FD (a pattern for her).

    Wheeee 90s ice dance talk.

  15. #35
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    At the 1993 Worlds G&P did not receive a single 1st place oridinal in any program. In the Original dance they received 3rd and 4th place ordinals, and in the FD three 4th place ordinals. It was reported after the event the 6 judges who did not place them 4th in the FD at those Worlds were suspended specifically for overmarking them based on reputation. They came of age in 1994 but in 1993 they were seen as on the way down, and their silver at Worlds was a huge controversy, and they were never in contention for the gold by any stretch.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    At the 1993 Worlds G&P did not receive a single 1st place oridinal in any program. In the Original dance they received 3rd and 4th place ordinals, and in the FD three 4th place ordinals. It was reported after the event the 6 judges who did not place them 4th in the FD at those Worlds were suspended specifically for overmarking them based on reputation.
    I still don't understand how that was determined. Either the 6 judges had to agree with the minority and place them 4th, or they were marking on reputation? I would be screwed if I was a judge there becuase I thought they were clearly second, reputation or not.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    At the 1993 Worlds G&P did not receive a single 1st place oridinal in any program. In the Original dance they received 3rd and 4th place ordinals, and in the FD three 4th place ordinals. It was reported after the event the 6 judges who did not place them 4th in the FD at those Worlds were suspended specifically for overmarking them based on reputation. They came of age in 1994 but in 1993 they were seen as on the way down, and their silver at Worlds was a huge controversy, and they were never in contention for the gold by any stretch.
    I've never heard this story.
    IMO, G&P deserved their 2nd place.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    I would put DomShabs above FP&M just because they skated a stunning CD in Vancouver.
    THAT CD was awesome, like the brittis comentator said "Oksana Domnina is on Fire".

  19. #39
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    Hmmm, I haven't sumitted a vote yet - I simply can't bring myself to call a skater "weak" when they competed at highest level. But I see the point with F-P/M (I love them, though...), and L/A.

    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    I'd probably go with Usova/Zhulin in 1994, but in my magical rewriting of the event, I also have them skating their 1993 program. I make up for it by giving G/P bronze in 1992[ (U/Z silver, K/P gold.).
    You mean the OG, I think? That would mean kicking the D's from the podium... I'd never do that...

  20. #40
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    Magical rewriting of the Olympic Games hurts some, unfortunately. But yes, I prefer the three Russian teams to the Duchesnays that year.

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