ISU Congress

[Sylvia]

For those interested, gkelly has started a new thread in the Trash Can: Hypothetical alternative structures and qualifying processes for Worlds

Thanks, drfj, for sharing news from the ISU Congress.

[pani]

Any official information about 2013 WCh?

[misskarne]

#australiaforworlds2013

Well c'mon. What better place for the pre-Olympic Worlds than somewhere politikly neutral?

[barbk]

I saw most of Worlds this year live in person and I can't think of one skater who deserves an Eddie the Eagle comparison.

Sit through all of 4CC ladies and I think you might see it differently.

[bmcg]

If the Russians can put together Worlds on one month's notice, I am sure a well-run organization like Skate Canada will be able to adjust for this change with nine months to go. They just had four rounds of qualifying and at least a couple of days of skating and practice time shaved off the event, which should make things easier.

I think it's great that more skaters will have a chance to compete at Worlds in the pre-Olympic year, and hopefully there will be some pleasant surprises.

I read the alledged reasoning would be financial, not their ability to run and schedule an event. Canada isn´t Russia where the government financially supported that event. I can't picture this government doing anything to help.

In what way would this have changed their choice of location?

As for the tickets, surely Skate Canada is aware that the format of the championships is often reviewed during the Congress and this is not the first time the format has been changed. Therefore if they have chosen to sell the tickets before the Congress, this is a risk they have knowingly taken. The championships are more than nine months away. What was the great hurry?

OT: Tickets for skating competitions in Canada and the US are sold so much earlier than anywhere else in the world. I always wonder if the fans don't protest. The difficulty of knowing one's schedule more than a year in advance aside, we don't usually pay so much in advance for any goods or services!

I don't know any more than you but maybe if they knew the size of the bill they would be getting they would have come to the conclusion that it was better to hold it in a different city with a larger seating capacity. Or not made a bid. These are just possibilities would seem pretty common sense to me.

"Nine months away" is also not a "great hurry" for a competition of this level. Fans protest? If you can´t commit to an event a year in advance then there is an easy solution, don't. Those that can will purchase their tickets and those that can´t will wait until closer to the date to do so. If they are sold out well that' s unfortunate but that's business.

I was just offering a possible reasoning for the rumour. Debating any further is pointless at this point so I will finish with saying having been part of the organizing committee for an international event it´s more than a little hiccup when things like this happen. The rumoured reaction could also just be an annoyed/angry response to the consequences of this vote.

I don't know the current rules for funding by the ISU but smaller federations did get funding based on the amount of ISU sanctioned events they attend. So with this new rule, they benefit financially (or they did in the past) but loose the bill they had before for their skater if they did not make it past the qualifying rounds. These smaller federations will never have the cost of hosting a worlds because they typically don't have the facilities. I FULLY SUPPORT the inclusion of the athletes because it does help develop the sport within each country. Just maybe not the financial arrangements.

[bmcg]

Sit through all of 4CC ladies and I think you might see it differently.

It should only be painful for the judges. Everyone else has the freedom to leave and since the best skaters typically skate near the end it should be easy to schedule in your dinner break.

[gkelly]

Sit through all of 4CC ladies and I think you might see it differently.

Well, that's Four Continents. We do expect the bottom standards at the continental championships to be lower than at Worlds. In particular, since 4Cs is still small enough that it can be developmental for newer federations, they're all allowed to send 3 entries to 4Cs, but they can only send one, generally their top skater, to Worlds.

They all still have to have met the minimum scores to be at 4Cs. But they won't all get to Worlds.

It should only be painful for the judges. Everyone else has the freedom to leave and since the best skaters typically skate near the end it should be easy to schedule in your dinner break.

Right. The championships are more for the skaters (and federations) than for the spectators. Skating is still primarily an amateur sport.

Hopefully judges enjoy analyzing less-than-world-medal-level skating so it isn't especially painful. They certainly have to do it often enough.

However, if the short program draws aren't seeded then it's harder to schedule around the top skaters. And sometimes skaters having a breakout late in the season, that fans want to see, don't have the rankings yet to get seeded into the later groups.

[Skittl1321]

Sit through all of 4CC ladies and I think you might see it differently.

I watched all the ladies (and men) and thoroughly enjoyed seeing the lower level ones. They all tried very hard, and many had great presentation and interesting programs. Because they are only trying to do their best, no hopes of the podium where every tenth counts, they don't pander to code of points quite so much.


Because of the altitude some of the top skaters were just as fatigued. As gkelly pointed out- most of those skaters won't get to go to World's anyway. Most feds only send 1.

[Asli]

If I remember correctly, the sale of tickets for Euros 2011 was held off until after congress in 2010 precisely because of this.

Exactly, and there was a warning on the website about the schedule being subject to change pending decisions of the ISU Congress.

[kwanfan1818]

Even if tickets are sold well ahead of time, which is quite nice for cash flow, there should always be the warning that the schedule might change. If the prelim rule goes into effect in 2013, it's not as if the face value of all of the individual tickets for London minus prelims is less than the price of the full event ticket. And it's not as if they sold the tickets and changed the week of the event.

[AJ Skatefan]

I don't get why eliminating the preliminaries make the event more expensive for Skate Canada. It seems like it would be cheaper. What am I missing?

[Skittl1321]

I don't get why eliminating the preliminaries make the event more expensive for Skate Canada. It seems like it would be cheaper. What am I missing?

If Skate Canada has to provide the accommodations for all the skaters, who would normally be eliminated, that is a lot more expensive.

If they have already contracted ice time, that they are now obligated to pay for, they will have to do that without recouping money from ticket sales. Except I can't imagine you'd make more than three dollars from preliminary ticket sales- who would go? I bet almost all the people are on all event tickets or comped.

[maggylyn]

I watched all the ladies (and men) and thoroughly enjoyed seeing the lower level ones. They all tried very hard, and many had great presentation and interesting programs. Because they are only trying to do their best, no hopes of the podium where every tenth counts, they don't pander to code of points quite so much.

I watched them all also, and enjoyed it very much.

I appreciate how hard they have worked to get to a 4CC competition.

[kwanfan1818]

What is the difference financially, for example, between >30 (singles) being eliminated after prelims and 6 being eliminated after the SP, and eliminating all but 24 in the SP?

Having a set contract for the arena and practice ice for prelims might be the biggest financial issue for SC, since there's usually a tie in with zambonis and drivers, security, ushers, etc. The ISU could just as easily have decided to raise the minimum score and/or limit the competitions where the minimum could be earned, making prelims unnecessary in all or most disciplines. (For example, were the GP minimum used instead of the championship TES minimum, with only ISU events eligible for minimum scores, my quick count shows 30 qualifiers for the Ladies SD.)

To not have either put the contingency into the contract or have budgeted for insurance to cover a change would be a problem.

[Eislauffan]

The ISU could just as easily have decided to raise the minimum score and/or limit the competitions where the minimum could be earned, making prelims unnecessary in all or most disciplines. (For example, were the GP minimum used instead of the championship TES minimum, with only ISU events eligible for minimum scores, my quick count shows 30 qualifiers for the Ladies SD.)

I think for the minimum score for ISU Championships the ISU needs the approval of the congress (unlike for the Grand Prix). Obviously the same federations with weaker skaters that voted out the preliminaries never would agree to a high minimum score that eliminates their skaters from the beginning.

[kwanfan1818]

I thought the ISU Council pushed through CoP without the approval of the ISU Congress, and because IJS and minimum scores are addressed in "Special Regulations and Technical Rules," that this was without explicit consent of the ISU Congress.

If the ISU Congress needs to pass a change in the minimum score for championships, then, absolutely, it would be crazy for all but the stronger feds to vote for a change that drastic.

[crzesk8dad]

The preliminaries at Worlds this year for example eliminated over 70 skaters from the competition. Multiply that number by hotel rooms over a number of nights, etc. and it's not an insignificant amount of money.

Personally, I don't see why an organising committee should have to pay for a competitor's accommodation and meals. It's their choice to be there innit.



At the last congress I believe that some of the organising federations for upcoming championships threatened to relinquish hosting if the preliminary round proposal wasn't passed.

It may be the case that it was more hassle than it was worth even if it did save money. I heard some accommodation expenses from Sheffield and Nice are still outstanding from federations whose skaters didn't advance from the preliminaries (even though they were supposed to have paid cash beforehand).....

One of the toughest jobs in the LOC for Worlds is the "Hotel Chairperson". I was on the LOC for 2009 Worlds in LA..fortunately I handled transportation..however the lady that did it (and she had done it at other competitions) was exactly what was needed. She was organized and TOUGH TOUGH TOUGH.

Some of the countries that didn't have skaters go on the next level would attempt to skip out and not pay their bill...or they would try to stay longer and have the LOC pay the tab, even thought they were finished.

Fortunately, there was close cooperation between her and the ISU Director, so if any problems did occur, let's just say, it was handled quickly.

[Morry Stillwell]

I don't get why eliminating the preliminaries make the event more expensive for Skate Canada. It seems like it would be cheaper. What am I missing?

Entry Fee Reduction.

[kwanfan1818]

Why would any fewer skaters enter the SP/SD than would enter the prelims?

[Aussie Willy]

#australiaforworlds2013

Well c'mon. What better place for the pre-Olympic Worlds than somewhere politikly neutral?

Are you going to organise it?