View Poll Results: Who is the weakest link

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  • Todd Eldredge

    80 30.89%
  • Elvis Stojko

    24 9.27%
  • Ilia Kulik

    8 3.09%
  • Alexei Yagudin

    3 1.16%
  • Evgeni Plushenko

    4 1.54%
  • Stéphane Lambiel

    4 1.54%
  • Brian Joubert

    16 6.18%
  • Jeffrey Buttle

    44 16.99%
  • Evan Lysacek

    64 24.71%
  • Daisuke Takahashi

    7 2.70%
  • Patrick Chan

    5 1.93%
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  1. #41
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    I voted for Todd because of my disdain for his "presentation". I know that the comparison was made due to results and not skating qualities, but don't put Todd and Maria Butyrskaya in the same sentence. Maria is an artist. I don't consider Todd much of one. His triple axels were big, but I put his technical + artistic total below that of those on this list.

  2. #42
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    Zzzzz Eldredge and/or Klutz Lysacek, the sooner they go, the better. JMHO.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I voted Todd again, same as last time, I like him but his competitive record doesn't measure up to that of the rest (except maybe Joubert, but I think Joubert even has more world medals).
    They have the same number and distribution of World medals: one gold, three silver, two bronze. But I think Joubert has faced tougher competition for much of his career, and considering his success at Europeans and other events, he gets the edge.

    I voted for Todd, but I'm regretting it already. Should have gone with Evan.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Joubert of 2004 and 2007 would wipe the floor with any version of Eldredge and Lysacek.
    If Joubert is so wonderful, then how could he let someone so allegedly awful as Lysacek beat him for the 2009 World title and wipe the floor with him in Vancouver?

    Joubert almost never really delivered when it counted. His Olympic performances ranged from meh to atrocious. One World title in 11 seasons, and even there his utterly forgettable freeskate only ranked third; Daisuke stole the show that night.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    If Joubert is so wonderful, then how could he let someone so allegedly awful as Lysacek beat him for the 2009 World title and wipe the floor with him in Vancouver?

    Joubert almost never really delivered when it counted. His Olympic performances ranged from meh to atrocious. One World title in 11 seasons, and even there his utterly forgettable freeskate only ranked third; Daisuke stole the show that night.
    I didnt say he was consistent. However at his best he was formidable, and better than skaters like Lysacek or Eldredge. He was a bit unlucky to have his peak years when guys like Plushenko, Lambiel, Takahashi, Buttle were also peaking, rather than when someone like Evan did when there was literally nobody. Obviously others agree with me as the poll results indicate.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I didnt say he was consistent. However at his best he was formidable, and better than skaters like Lysacek or Eldredge. He was a bit unlucky to have his peak years when guys like Plushenko, Lambiel, Takahashi, Buttle were also peaking, rather than when someone like Evan did when there was literally nobody. Obviously others agree with me as the poll results indicate.
    Not really; there's far more anti-Evan sentiment on these boards than anti-Joubert sentiment. Bitter fans who are angry that Evan beat their favorites (cough-Weir-cough-Plushenko-cough).

    And give me a break about Joubert being unlucky. He and Evan competed during the same time period; they faced the same competitors. The fact is that Evan routinely brought his A-game to competitions, whereas all too often Joubert got lazy and changed up his jumps mid-routine if he felt he didn't "need" it. He had a clear shot at the 2005, 2006, 2008 and 2009 World titles but he has only himself to blame for missing out on those. Also, his spins and steps were meh at best, far too much two-feet skating. If Evan goes next (and I suppose he will), then Joubert should go after that.

  7. #47
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    Yes they competed in the same era but they peaked at different times. Best skaters isnt just about medal count. Lysacek now has a superior medal count to Lambiel but nobody in their right mind would say Evan is the better skater. Joubert isnt that great a skater but his jumping ability alone puts him above all Evan's combined abilities as a skater which are marginal for elite standards at best. He is a great competitor, with major coaching clout, a fortunate sequence of events (starting with Worlds being in LA, without which I doubt he ever becomes World Champion, let alone Olympic), and who peaked at the perfect time. That is it.

    As long as Evan and Todd are the first 2 to go, and as I said I think Todd should go before Evan anyway, I agree Joubert going next would be fine. I would keep Buttle on after him for sheer skating quality, and Joubert outlasting Stojko would be insane considering Joubert is basically a combination of a wannabee Stojko and wannabee Yagudin without their competitive nerve.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Yes they competed in the same era but they peaked at different times. Best skaters isnt just about medal count. Lysacek now has a superior medal count to Lambiel but nobody in their right mind would say Evan is the better skater.
    Mr. Double Axel is the better skater, but he's also overrated. No triple axel, and many of his other jumps were eeked out. I'm still pissed that his lousy Olympic programs nearly beat out Daisuke for bronze. I'll be gunning for him after Joubert departs. Yeah, I said it!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I still don't understand how a skater with 6 world medals, including a gold, can be considered inconsistent. He never won an Olympic medal, but neither did some of the other top skaters. He did have a low period from 93-96, but his longevity is amazing. He competed from 1990 to 2002- that's 12 years. He missed making the world/team 3 out of those. That's still 9 years of skating at the top level.
    I loved Todd. From 94 on, he was one of my favs.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    If Joubert is so wonderful, then how could he let someone so allegedly awful as Lysacek beat him for the 2009 World title and wipe the floor with him in Vancouver?

    Joubert almost never really delivered when it counted. His Olympic performances ranged from meh to atrocious. One World title in 11 seasons, and even there his utterly forgettable freeskate only ranked third; Daisuke stole the show that night.
    FWIW, Joubert suffered a foot injury a month before 2007 Worlds (spiked his blade into his foot), which affected his training going into that event. He skated conservatively for sure, but he did all his jumps, and IIRC got no negative GOEs on anything. Compare that to Lysacek, who did play it safe jump-wise long after he had that stress fracture, while skaters who had suffered far more serious injuries (e.g. Dai) didn't. Playing it safe worked out well for Lysacek but it did because the men's event at the Olympics was such a letdown (possibly because so many of the top skaters had medical issues), not because he's a brilliant skater.

    For me, it comes down to how good each skater was at his best. Lysacek, even at his best, was pretty meh. I do think he was very strong mentally and I also think he was fortunate to peak at a time when the scoring system aligned almost perfectly with his strengths and few skaters were in top condition. The same cannot be said for some of the other skaters on this list.

  11. #51
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    I voted for Stojko. He really little to offer other than high jump difficulty.

    The next skaters I would consider are:
    - Buttle: A strong artistic skater, but extremely inconsistent technically. He pulled it together for a World Championship win at just the right time, but otherwise has trouble keeping it together.
    - Joubert: Skated well one season and kept it together for a World title, but otherwise didn't seem to be contender for the top spot.
    - Lysacek: Weak 3a and questionable artistry. Even with perfectly clean skates, I have to wonder whether has scores are too high.

    Let's keep Eldredge in. He was an all-round solid competitor and skater, and I probably cannot say that about the skaters who should be eliminated first. Strong jumps, spins, and footwork, and great mentally as well. There was nothing about his skating that really stood out, but he delivered well enough.

  12. #52
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    My take:

    Stojko and Eldredge should be the next two to go based on skating quality. Stojko is the tougher competitor and more accomplished skater, but Eldredge is the better all around skater with better spins.

    Then the next two should be between Lysacek and Joubert. Pretentious or not, Lysacek has shown far more versatility and complexity in his skating and in his spins.

    And then only after these four are gone should we get into the quality skaters, with probably Kulik and Buttle next, since they rarely delivered.

    And after that, it becomes a real head scratcher. I personally would probably have Plushenko gone next, but I am sure that won't happen.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    My take:

    Then the next two should be between Lysacek and Joubert. Pretentious or not, Lysacek has shown far more versatility and complexity in his skating and in his spins.
    Complexity, yeah, but Lysacek has shown more versatility than Joubert? The vast majority of Lysacek's programs all looked the same to me: overused figure skating warhorse music, black costume, and a whole lot of arm flailing, especially during the LOUD DRAMATIC FLAILY step sequence at the end of every single one of his programs. Plus: Espana Cani for FOUR seasons straight....UGH.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by vodkashot View Post
    Complexity, yeah, but Lysacek has shown more versatility than Joubert? The vast majority of Lysacek's programs all looked the same to me: overused figure skating warhorse music, black costume, and a whole lot of arm flailing, especially during the LOUD DRAMATIC FLAILY step sequence at the end of every single one of his programs. Plus: Espana Cani for FOUR seasons straight....UGH.
    Absolutely. They both suck in this area, but at least Lysacek nearly pulled off Singing in the Rain, Gershwin and Rach 2 etc.

    And didn't Joubert also skate to Matrix in 4 separate seasons? Other than that, it's really all about hip thrusting music and other movie soundtracks. His Beethoven last year didn't quite work IMO.

    Looking back, Lysacek did span across more genres than Joubert, Stojko or Eldredge, if not just by a tad. The only non-1492 type music I remember from Eldredge was the one where he pretended to be a clown... and it was not good memory

  15. #55
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    In my opinion Eldredge is the weakest link (should have been voted out on the first round), next will be Joubert. Lysacek as a skater who has won OG, WCG and GPFG should survive a lot longer.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Looking back, Lysacek did span across more genres than Joubert, Stojko or Eldredge, if not just by a tad. The only non-1492 type music I remember from Eldredge was the one where he pretended to be a clown... and it was not good memory
    I think neither Joubert nor Lysacek have displayed amazing musical range, but Joubert has challenged himself more than Lysacek, who pretty much cycled through every warhorse in the book without once varying his interpretation.

    Joubert used The Matrix for two seasons and once in 2006; I think Lysacek kept Espana Cani for longer than that. If Eldredge skated as a clown, I have happily suppressed that memory.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    I think neither Joubert nor Lysacek have displayed amazing musical range, but Joubert has challenged himself more than Lysacek, who pretty much cycled through every warhorse in the book without once varying his interpretation.

    Joubert used The Matrix for two seasons and once in 2006; I think Lysacek kept Espana Cani for longer than that. If Eldredge skated as a clown, I have happily suppressed that memory.
    I liked Lysacek's Singing in the Rain...

    Joubert also skated to the Matrix at Worlds 3 months ago.

    I joke when I said clown. He was skating to some fun, light hearted music and it ended up looking pretty hilarious if not outright foolish.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post

    Let's keep Eldredge in. He was an all-round solid competitor and skater, and I probably cannot say that about the skaters who should be eliminated first. Strong jumps, spins, and footwork, and great mentally as well. There was nothing about his skating that really stood out, but he delivered well enough.
    Well, I think his spinning ability stands out! Not a flamboyant skater, nor the most innovative, but a quality skater.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    If Eldredge skated as a clown, I have happily suppressed that memory.
    I hope you're not referring to his "Chaplin" program. Personally, I thought that was charming. Back in the fall of 1995, he skated to a program from "Chess," and the shirt of his costume looked like a chessboard. Maybe you're thinking of that? At any rate, he dropped that program and skated to "First Knight" for the rest of the season, and that was the program with which he won Worlds in 1996. I also hope you're not referring to his SOI program "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life," which I thought was hilarious (and judging from the audience reaction was very much appreciated).

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Joubert also skated to the Matrix at Worlds 3 months ago.
    Indeed he did, it was one of Joubert's two seasons with that program (2003-4, 2011-12). In his defense, he did try something different the previous year with Once Upon a Time in Mexico and the 9th Symphony, and the judges didn't seem too excited about it.

    I joke when I said clown. He was skating to some fun, light hearted music and it ended up looking pretty hilarious if not outright foolish.
    Re Eldredge, and it ties in to my previous post re Joubert and Lysacek - I think some skaters have a more narrow range of music they can interpret well, but even within that range there are possibilities and original choices. I didn't find Todd particularly memorable, but I think he had a good sense of what worked for him, and I think Joubert does too (though I find him more memorable ). I like that Joubert's something of a 6.0 throwback; sometimes I need a break from all the super CoP-friendly programs.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    Mr. Double Axel is the better skater, but he's also overrated. No triple axel, and many of his other jumps were eeked out. I'm still pissed that his lousy Olympic programs nearly beat out Daisuke for bronze.
    Well, that's not exactly true, although so many people think that . But they either have a selective memory, or haven't watched Lambiel's 2005 to 2008 worlds performances at all. He had a triple axel either in both, or one of his programs there. True, he never did it well, and even fell on it one or two times (at worlds), but that's not exactly the same as not having it at all. As for the 2010 Olympics - he didn't get that bronze after all (which, with the skates that he had, is really fortunate, because I can imagine the uproar and wave of hatred that it would have caused - and, in my opinion, he is one of the least hatred deserving people in figure skating). And I really don't understand hatred towards skaters who have gotten higher marks and places than they deserved - it's not like they can be blamed for what judges do. Of course, there are exceptions, but I won't write about that here.

    Anyway - returning to Lambiel. I think that people who regard him highly mostly don't think so much about the jumps, but about the fresh and pretty much unparalled style (I don't mean his music, of course ) that he and his choreographer Salome Brunner brought to figure skating, his musicality, the quality of his skating and his spins. Yes, yes, there are people to whom such things as style and musicality also matter .
    Last edited by lauravvv; 06-14-2012 at 03:43 PM.

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