View Poll Results: Who is the weakest link

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  • Todd Eldredge

    80 30.89%
  • Elvis Stojko

    24 9.27%
  • Ilia Kulik

    8 3.09%
  • Alexei Yagudin

    3 1.16%
  • Evgeni Plushenko

    4 1.54%
  • Stéphane Lambiel

    4 1.54%
  • Brian Joubert

    16 6.18%
  • Jeffrey Buttle

    44 16.99%
  • Evan Lysacek

    64 24.71%
  • Daisuke Takahashi

    7 2.70%
  • Patrick Chan

    5 1.93%
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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    Vash, those are good points about Todd. I liked him. I think he suffers not only for being a quadless skater in a quad-filled era but also for being kind of boring (or at any rate, not flashy) during his amateur career. Everything was solid but no "wow" features in his skating. His spins were excellent quality but not flashy like Lambiel's. He was a solid competitor but not an outstanding one. He did win Worlds in 1996 but he also let opportunities to win an Olympic medal and a World title slip away in 1998.(Actually, I'm tempted to vote for Joubert this round, but I fear the vote would be wasted as there's no groundswell of support to oust him just yet!)
    IMO his biggest miss was in 1992 Oly when he landed a 3A-2t and a 3L but slipped and fell on the 2A toward the end of his SP (I still remember his gesture, pointing his finger at his head). He did not make the team in 94 (the USA had just two spots). In 1998 he had a real opportunity to at least win a medal, but IMO he was beaten by an unexpectedly strong performance by Candeloro. I think he was so distraught over missing the Olympic podium that he could not perform his best at the 98 worlds. In 2006 he was already past his prime, and attempting a quad in the SP when he was not even sure he could land it, pretty much took him out of any medal chances.

    He did beat a very good performance by Kulik at the 96 worlds though. He got on the world podium quite a few times - he won SIX world medals (91 B, 95 S, 96 G, 97 S, 98 S, 2001 B). That's not too shabby. In addition, I think he won the US nationals about 5 times. I do agree that he was not a flashy skater, so some found him boring. He was definitely a joy to watch as a pro. I will take him over Lysacek any day.
    Last edited by Vash01; 06-12-2012 at 09:53 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Am I the only one here that likes Todd Eldredge? I am not saying he is the greatest skater or anything like that, but he had many really good qualities. He landed a 3A3t combination as early as 1990, when very few were attempting it. He had excellent spins, lines, and he was a very consistent skater. He developed artistically after he turned pro. He did not win an Olympic medal but that's because he was competing in an era that was dominated by quad jumpers (Yagudin, Plushenko, Stojko, Goebel, Kulik). He started learning the quad quite late in his career, and never mastered it. I like him better than many other skaters listed here.
    I liked him. He just wasnt as strong as the others. It is not like he would have been the best even without quad jumps. Stojko, Yagudin, Plushenko, Kulik, Urmanov, and others didnt even need quads to beat a clean Eldredge. At the 98 Olympics he was pushed off the podium by 2 skaters who didnt do quads, and probably would have been even if he skated cleanly. His World title was a bit lucky since Stojko and Umranov, the two favorites, both self destructed, and Kulik made some mental errors in his long program and even with that and very immature artistry at that point still nearly won. He was the best of the second tier basically, kind of like a Zagarodniuk, waiting for others to fall to succeed, but better than Zagarodniuk.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    In 1998 he had a real opportunity to at least win a medal, but IMO he was beaten by an unexpectedly strong performance by Candeloro.
    I really think Todd beat himself there. Only five triples in his program, having doubled the second half of his 3-3 attempts and then singling his second triple axel. Then he tried to throw in a second triple axel late in the program and splatted. Candeloro's program was nothing special, it was riddled with sloppy landings on the jumps, a step-out on the second triple axel, awful spins and cringeworthy posing. Ugh!

  4. #24
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    Candelero beat Stojko in the LP and Eldredge was not capable of beating Stojko so there you have it. Even American journalists all conceded Eldredge was not capable of beating quadless and injured Stojko with a clean skate by stating "he could have bronze", apparently not even realizing Candelero had beaten Stojko in the LP, only finishing below him due to 2nd vs 5th in the short (Eldredge being only 3rd in the SP did not have that luxury). The only places he could have finished were 2nd and 4th.

    I am not sure if there is any year he was capable of an Olympic medal. In 1992 he could have won silver or even gold at the Craptola Olympics with a clean short and his LP from the 91 Worlds, but he was injured and not the same skater, and even healthy wouldnt be the same skater again until 1995. 1994 he couldnt have made the team even had he skated cleanly at Nationals, Boitano and Davis already had their spots earmarked, Mark Mitchell is the only other one they might have considered that year had he skated well at Nationals (he was more in favor than Todd at the time). 1998 he would have likely not medaled skating cleanly as explained above. That leaves only 2002, field was way too deep this year for a quadless skater, most unlikely of all. His consistency was what won him all his World medals. In that sense he is similar to Lysacek. Evan just having more powerful jumps (outside the axel), much trickier footwork, and more command and difficult choreography though.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Candelero beat Stojko in the LP and Eldredge was not capable of beating Stojko so there you have it. Even American journalists all conceded Eldredge was not capable of beating quadless and injured Stojko with a clean skate by stating "he could have bronze", apparently not even realizing Candelero had beaten Stojko in the LP, only finishing below him due to 2nd vs 5th in the short (Eldredge being only 3rd in the SP did not have that luxury). The only places he could have finished were 2nd and 4th.

    I am not sure if there is any year he was capable of an Olympic medal. In 1992 he could have won silver or even gold at the Craptola Olympics with a clean short and his LP from the 91 Worlds, but he was injured and not the same skater, and even healthy wouldnt be the same skater again until 1995. 1994 he couldnt have made the team even had he skated cleanly at Nationals, Boitano and Davis already had their spots earmarked, Mark Mitchell is the only other one they might have considered that year had he skated well at Nationals (he was more in favor than Todd at the time). 1998 he would have likely not medaled skating cleanly as explained above. That leaves only 2002, field was way too deep this year for a quadless skater, most unlikely of all. His consistency was what won him all his World medals. In that sense he is similar to Lysacek. Evan just having more powerful jumps (outside the axel), much trickier footwork, and more command and difficult choreography though.
    Injury or not, in 92 he actually had a strong SP, except for the mental error on the 2A. In 98 he could have medaled. Candeloro was just lucky to have won two Olympic bronze medals. He was a showman but never in the same class as other top skaters when it came to competitive skating.

    In 96 worlds he beat a clean performance by Kulik, and that may have been his best competitive performance.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Am I the only one here that likes Todd Eldredge?
    NO! You perfectly listed his qualities, and I loved his reverse jumps. I actually think Todd's SP at 97 Worlds (a competition PACKED with talent, as all the top skaters and a young Yagudin on the verge of greatness all gave solid SPs) should have placed first (it later did on a technicality, as first place Urmanov had to withdraw from the LP due to injury, moving 2nd place Eldredge into 1st). I think more than anything, Todd's inconsistency and lack of a quad are hurting him in this game.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Injury or not, in 92 he actually had a strong SP, except for the mental error on the 2A. In 98 he could have medaled. Candeloro was just lucky to have won two Olympic bronze medals. He was a showman but never in the same class as other top skaters when it came to competitive skating.

    In 96 worlds he beat a clean performance by Kulik, and that may have been his best competitive performance.
    He could have been 2nd or 3rd after the SP in Albertville but his LP would have never held up for a medal. 3 or 4 triples would not win a medal, Barna only did that too but he landed a quad and his artistic scores would be higher than a young Todd even with his boring Hamlet program. Todd wasnt physically able of fit enough to complete more than 4 triples at that point it appeared.

    I agree with you on Candelero but the judges loved his 98 long program and gave him IMO inflated artistic scores, which is why he beat Stojko in the LP despite his technical deficiencies (eg- spins, air positions in jumps, even though he landed almost all his jumps that night) and stepping out of his 2nd triple axel. Candelero beating Stojko in the LP ended Todd's potential medal hopes in Nagano.

    Kulik wasnt really clean in the LP at the 96 Worlds. He left out a triple flip combination, he actually had 2 triple-triples planned like Eldredge, and also had his last triple flip discounted as it wasnt in combination. Otherwise I am pretty sure Kulik would have won even with weaker artistry at that point, and only the same jump content had he done all planned. The sheer quality of his jumps would have done it for him. I was happy that Todd was able to win the 96 Worlds though.

  8. #28

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    I still don't understand how a skater with 6 world medals, including a gold, can be considered inconsistent. He never won an Olympic medal, but neither did some of the other top skaters. He did have a low period from 93-96, but his longevity is amazing. He competed from 1990 to 2002- that's 12 years. He missed making the world/team 3 out of those. That's still 9 years of skating at the top level.

  9. #29
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    I agree, Todd was very consistent. He just wasnt good enough to beat Stojko hardly ever really, even quadless Stojko, and since Stojko was also consistent he would always lose to him, and he would also lose to Urmanov or Kulik whenever they skated well, while others from behind (eg- Candelero in 98, young Yagudin, etc...) could knock him off even a good Todd if they had a great competition. Before that you had Browning, Petrenko, and others better than him; and after that Yagudin, Plushenko, Goebel's quads (not his skating), and others. Consistency was never a problem for him, just that in an all clean competition he was slated to be 4th or lower at all points of his career, so he never controlled his own destiny. Hence why he won only 1 Worlds, no Grand Prix final, no Olympic medal, and beat the dominant skater of his era only 1 time in 8 years, not lack of consistency though, he was close to as consistent as Stojko and more than the other top skaters then. He was the male Butyrskaya with more consistency.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Candelero beat Stojko in the LP and Eldredge was not capable of beating Stojko so there you have it.
    IMO Eldredge could have gotten ahead of Stojko for silver had he skated better. As you said earlier (or maybe in the last round's thread), Stojko was injured and very off his game that night -- low landings on jumps, shortened spins, etc.

    By the way, I get that judges liked Candeloro's FS, but I just rewatched it and I just can't understand what there is to love -- it was pose, stroke, land a jump by the skin of his teeth with three-turns on the end, rinse, repeat I would have had Stojko ahead of Candeloro in the freeskate.

    He was the male Butyrskaya with more consistency
    Meanwhile Maria is in danger of being booted off in the women's round, so it might be fitting if Todd and Maria were booted together.

  11. #31
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    Admittedly I didn't become a fan of FS until the famous WACK. I labeled Todd inconsistent because tho I recall many clean SPs, clean LPs by Todd were too far and in-between. I think 96 and 97 Worlds show that the international judges appreciated his talent and were willing to reward him with high marks when he skated cleanly, but he often didn't.

  12. #32
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    I voted Todd again, same as last time, I like him but his competitive record doesn't measure up to that of the rest (except maybe Joubert, but I think Joubert even has more world medals).

  13. #33
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    Todd for me. Bore. At least Evan has had pics showing his pubes. Todd's? Eww. He has the appeal of my late grandfather mowing his lawn with black socks and sandals. Please let it be Todd. He failed when it mattered except in 2006. You always knew in the big moment he'd double out of his 3/3s and double that second 3axel. Like clockwork. He also kept Paul Wylie from a well-deserved National title in 1990, which is unforgiveable.
    I will not be ignored! -Me

  14. #34
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    Eldredge was zzzzz and Lysacek could never do a decent 3A.
    I don't know which to choose from.

  15. #35
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    Really dont care who goes between Todd and Evan, as long as they are the next two to go. Both are sorely outclassed by the skaters in this group.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    Todd for me. Bore. At least Evan has had pics showing his pubes. Todd's? Eww. He has the appeal of my late grandfather mowing his lawn with black socks and sandals. Please let it be Todd. He failed when it mattered except in 2006. You always knew in the big moment he'd double out of his 3/3s and double that second 3axel. Like clockwork. He also kept Paul Wylie from a well-deserved National title in 1990, which is unforgiveable.
    ITA with this!! Eldredge is out!!!

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    Todd for me. Bore. At least Evan has had pics showing his pubes. Todd's? Eww. He has the appeal of my late grandfather mowing his lawn with black socks and sandals. Please let it be Todd.
    Thank you! Finally an answer on how a terrible skater like Joubert can still be here while tremendously more talented skaters are voted off! You're all just a bunch of vapid horny teens looking at hot guys' pubes! Finally it makes sense.

  18. #38

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    Yeah, Joubert really should be the next one to go. Nice quads when he lands them, and that's about it. He is painfully one-note, he's badly underperformed at the last two Olympics, and not a lot of memorable World performances either. Heck, he was only third in the freeskate when he won his only World title. Not to mention he has reloaded his Matrix programs one too many times. At least Todd changed up his music, even if it was just soundtrack after soundtrack.

  19. #39
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    Joubert of 2004 and 2007 would wipe the floor with any version of Eldredge and Lysacek. Joubert also had a chance to win multiple Worlds, Evan and Todd did not. Joubert won the prestigous Grand Prix final and dominated a whole skating season, Todd has not done either, and Evan has never done the latter. Evan does have his Olympic Gold and Grand Prix final title too along with his World title, but obviously not the case for Todd.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    Eldredge is off the table for the time being. I think of him as the last of the great truly all around skaters.
    Thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Am I the only one here that likes Todd Eldredge? I am not saying he is the greatest skater or anything like that, but he had many really good qualities. He landed a 3A3t combination as early as 1990, when very few were attempting it. He had excellent spins, lines, and he was a very consistent skater. He developed artistically after he turned pro. He did not win an Olympic medal but that's because he was competing in an era that was dominated by quad jumpers (Yagudin, Plushenko, Stojko, Goebel, Kulik). He started learning the quad quite late in his career, and never mastered it. I like him better than many other skaters listed here.
    No, you are NOT alone!

    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    NO! You perfectly listed his qualities, and I loved his reverse jumps. I actually think Todd's SP at 97 Worlds (a competition PACKED with talent, as all the top skaters and a young Yagudin on the verge of greatness all gave solid SPs) should have placed first (it later did on a technicality, as first place Urmanov had to withdraw from the LP due to injury, moving 2nd place Eldredge into 1st). I think more than anything, Todd's lack of a quad is hurting him in this game.
    I don't agree on the "inconsistency" (unless you mean the times when his triple axel failed him), but I agree with most of what you're saying here.



    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I still don't understand how a skater with 6 world medals, including a gold, can be considered inconsistent. He never won an Olympic medal, but neither did some of the other top skaters. He did have a low period from 93-96, but his longevity is amazing. He competed from 1990 to 2002- that's 12 years. He missed making the world/team 3 out of those. That's still 9 years of skating at the top level.
    I would say the "low" period for him ended after the 1993/94 season. His 1994/1995 season was wonderful (winning Skate America, regaining his US title, winning silver @ Worlds). One correction from your posts. He won US Nationals 6 times (the 5th win was @ 1998 Nationals, the 6th @ 2002 Nationals). I just don't "get" all the Todd hate/disdain @ this board (nor the hate/disdain for many other skaters here). I'm enjoying him very much as a pro as well, and I do feel he started developing the artistry by the mid 1990's (actually his "Chaplin" program was an eye opener for me, and that was relatively early for him, circa 1992/1993). Considering the "serious" persona that he has had over the years, I thought it was quite endearing of him to pretend to shoot himself after his SP @ the 1992 Olympics.

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