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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Though I'm waiting for the parent who argues "But my little Poopykins is FOUR, she couldn't READ the 'No Tresspassing/Electrified Fence' signs."
    Actually that is a valid argument in some attractive nuisance jurisdictions, but liability would likely be apportioned between the parent who was not attending the child and the owner of the nuisance.

    http://definitions.uslegal.com/a/attractive-nuisance/

    In Holley's example, application of this doctrine is ridiculous if the parent took the children on the property. If he came on to rescue his trespassing children, it could be different. But the policy is that everyone should take steps to protect children, and the burden of not having a tire over a pond is small as opposed to the benefit of protecting children.
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    That is so sad.

    I think I've read about pool alarms that float and detect splashes and start shrieking -- not nearly as good as a good fence, but perhaps as a second line of defense?

    The majority of California pools I've seen in backyards are not fenced off from the house.
    CA has a law requiring it.

    There was some other law in place before that.............at least 20 years.

    This (along with baking your child in the car) are two of the most tragic preventable deaths of which I know. I don't know how you live with yourself after this.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue View Post
    And why does it have to be an eyesore kiddie gate? Fences can be quite decorative and add to the ambiance.
    Some pools are stand alone architectural pieces, so putting a fence around it of any sort is going to disturb it. Other pools are designed to be part of a larger landscape, with waterfalls and lush hanging plants and such. Fences of any sort would disrupt that.

    I think the best you could hope for in those cases are fences that detract as minimally as possible. But they certainly wouldn't add to any ambiance.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    Some pools are stand alone architectural pieces, so putting a fence around it of any sort is going to disturb it. Other pools are designed to be part of a larger landscape, with waterfalls and lush hanging plants and such. Fences of any sort would disrupt that.

    I think the best you could hope for in those cases are fences that detract as minimally as possible. But they certainly wouldn't add to any ambiance.
    My understanding is that the fence doesn't have to be right next to the waterline, but can be around the deck and other landscaping. A good architect and designer can design a fence that will fit in with any design or enhance the design. The fence (other than the gate, of course) can even be built of stone matching the waterfall, if so desired. It can also be totally obscured by landscaping (bushes and trees) which add to the ambiance plus provide privacy.

    Of course it costs more, but if you are able to afford the waterfalls and lush hanging plants, you should be able to afford a good fence as well. Better to pay for the fence now than to pay for damages and lawyers later.

  5. #25
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    I think the idea for some is they want to be able to see the pool. That's the visual centerpiece. Obscuring that with a wall defeats the aesthetic purpose. In many situations, the pool is visible by large glass windows, and there may not be much distance between the windows and the actual pool. Having a wall in between the two effectively means looking out your windows to a wall. Not exactly great ambiance.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    I think the idea for some is they want to be able to see the pool. That's the visual centerpiece. Obscuring that with a wall defeats the aesthetic purpose.
    Piranhas provide a clean line AND keep pesky trespassers away.
    The fastest thing out of New Jersey since Tricky Nicky in a Muscovian handbasket

  7. #27

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    What a great kid!

  8. #28

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    Here is Arizona, we hear constant reminder on TV to watch your kids around pools, and yet we keep hearing about tragedies. It takes only a few seconds of distraction for a kid to fall in the pool.

    We have rules here. Either the pool must be fenced or the sliding glass door at the back of the house must be a certain kind. It closes automatically. I have that kind of sliding door. I don't have children, so I opted not to have a fence. However, when my brother & his family visited me while my nephews were young, I was always extremely nervous. I did not let the kids even go near the sliding glass door. At one time I considered buying a temporary cover over the pool just before they visited.

    Long ago one of my coworkers who had just moved here said she was not going to buy a home with a pool because she had a 3 year old son. I think that is the smartest decision.

    My advice is- if you have young children, please don't buy a home with a backyard pool. Wait until all of them are over age 10.

  9. #29
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    what about people with ponds on their land? or creeks? are you supposed to fence them in too?
    Q: Why can't I read the competition threads?
    A: Competition forums on the board are available to those with a Season Pass or a premium membership How to View Kiss & Cry

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    what about people with ponds on their land? or creeks? are you supposed to fence them in too?
    For ponds and creeks I recommend alligators.
    The fastest thing out of New Jersey since Tricky Nicky in a Muscovian handbasket

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    For ponds and creeks I recommend alligators.
    Got some here we could export.
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    Got some here we could export.
    No kidding.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  13. #33

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    Adding to what agalisgv said, I have a pool in my backyard. The yard is pretty inaccessible to young children. All the walls are at least six-feet high, plus have high trees and bushes that would be extremely diffcult for anyone to get through. From the driveway, you would have to go through two gates, each with latches that are five-feet off the ground.

    When I bought my house, the pool came with a mesh fence. It is a complete eyesore. The pool is a very unusual shape and dominates my small backyard so having a four-foot high fence surrounding the pool basically means you look out my windows and see the mesh fence. Still, I have left the fence up. However, one piece tore and I cannot find a matching piece (the fence comes in parts that each have three mesh screens and must fit the existing holes poured in the concrete). A new fence would probably cost at least $1,000.

    The other thing about the fence is that opening it up to actually use the pool is a bitch. you have to force the fence out of one of the holes (it doesn't have a gate). Some of the newer fences have "gate" pieces, but those pieces alone seem to run more than $300.

    Given that I have no children, none of my family members or friends bring children to my house, and it is virtually impossible for a child to access my yard, I don't see why a pool fence is necessary. According to the CDC, between 1999 and 2007, the rate of swimming pool drowning deaths was 0.3 per 100,000. That is 3 out of 1 million. The Consumer Product Safety Commission's 2010 report indicates that there are about 4,200 submersion "incidents" annually in the US, with about 385 deaths among children under the age of 15. Appoximately half of the incidents and 3/4 of the fatalities occur at private residences as opposed to public facilities. Of the fatalities, 46% occurred at the victim's own home and 22% occurred at the home of a family member or friend. Only 5% of the deaths were reported as occurring at a neighbor's home.

    From that data, I think the odds of one of my neighbor's children entering my yard and dying in my pool is .00000015 or 1.5 out of 10 million. I think I have better odds of being killed by lightning.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    No kidding.
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  15. #35
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    Adding to what agalisgv said, I have a pool in my backyard. The yard is pretty inaccessible to young children. All the walls are at least six-feet high, plus have high trees and bushes that would be extremely diffcult for anyone to get through. From the driveway, you would have to go through two gates, each with latches that are five-feet off the ground.

    When I bought my house, the pool came with a mesh fence. It is a complete eyesore. The pool is a very unusual shape and dominates my small backyard so having a four-foot high fence surrounding the pool basically means you look out my windows and see the mesh fence. Still, I have left the fence up. However, one piece tore and I cannot find a matching piece (the fence comes in parts that each have three mesh screens and must fit the existing holes poured in the concrete). A new fence would probably cost at least $1,000.

    The other thing about the fence is that opening it up to actually use the pool is a bitch. you have to force the fence out of one of the holes (it doesn't have a gate). Some of the newer fences have "gate" pieces, but those pieces alone seem to run more than $300.

    Given that I have no children, none of my family members or friends bring children to my house, and it is virtually impossible for a child to access my yard, I don't see why a pool fence is necessary. According to the CDC, between 1999 and 2007, the rate of swimming pool drowning deaths was 0.3 per 100,000. That is 3 out of 1 million. The Consumer Product Safety Commission's 2010 report indicates that there are about 4,200 submersion "incidents" annually in the US, with about 385 deaths among children under the age of 15. Appoximately half of the incidents and 3/4 of the fatalities occur at private residences as opposed to public facilities. Of the fatalities, 46% occurred at the victim's own home and 22% occurred at the home of a family member or friend. Only 5% of the deaths were reported as occurring at a neighbor's home.

    From that data, I think the odds of one of my neighbor's children entering my yard and dying in my pool is .00000015 or 1.5 out of 10 million. I think I have better odds of being killed by lightning.
    Agree with it all. My six foot privacy fence which is locked is sufficient. I am not going to put up an ugly screen around my pool, too. I am assuming if someone's special snowflake can scale the six foot fence, no need for one around the pool because they would get around it as well. If it's toddlers wandering about and falling into pools, would they not be more likely to be hit by cars? People need to be responsible for their kids, not legislate others who don't have kids to make their PRIVATE property kid proof.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by leesaleesa View Post
    Agree with it all. My six foot privacy fence which is locked is sufficient. I am not going to put up an ugly screen around my pool, too. I am assuming if someone's special snowflake can scale the six foot fence, no need for one around the pool because they would get around it as well. If it's toddlers wandering about and falling into pools, would they not be more likely to be hit by cars? People need to be responsible for their kids, not legislate others who don't have kids to make their PRIVATE property kid proof.
    Seriously. Likewise, if your little Poopykins is left unattended on the side of the road to crawl under my electrobraid fence that's legally marked (electrified fencing is required to have signs something like every twenty feet or so), how is it my fault you can't be bothered to keep track of your child?

    Sadly with horses it's often the "parents" (if one can call them that) who will tell the kid "Oooh, look at the horsies! Go pet the horsies!" Ignoring the electric fence, padlocked road gate, and "posted-no trespassing" signs.

    The neighbors behind us where I grew up had a pool. We were allowed to come over and go swimming if we asked and our Mom was there to supervise. It would never have occurred to me to just wander over on my own.

  17. #37

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    Well, if you look at the original article, the kids were on the property with the caretaker, not just 'wandering in'.

    I hoestly think that if you have little kids on a property with an unfenced swimming pool, you need to pay attention. I don't think that is too much to ask.

    For any pool easily accesible (no fenced property) I can see the argument, but if the pool is on a private, fenced lot, I don't see why you would need the fence.

    The thing is - sadly, no matter how you try, you can't protect people from thier own stupidity, and you can't protect kids from their parents stupidity. There are so many bad choices you can make while having your kids around - only hope is to keep parents informed.

    btw - as an aside - this summer we will be staying at my in-laws summer house, which has a small water feature (pond, about 30 cm deep?). Any good ideas about how to temporarily fence it off or otherwise close it so we don't have to hawk over our 16 month old? Considering getting some cheap wooden boards and place on top?

  18. #38

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    If I had young children on my property, most definitely I would have a fence. I was responding to the laws requiring fences because pools could be an attractive nuisance that entice neighborhood children. I'm grandfathered at the moment from a fence law, but I may be required by law to have one if I remodel the pool.

    Oddly, the law does not apply to pools in apartment complexes or any residences other than single-family homes (e.g., duplexes).

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    I think the idea for some is they want to be able to see the pool. That's the visual centerpiece. Obscuring that with a wall defeats the aesthetic purpose. In many situations, the pool is visible by large glass windows, and there may not be much distance between the windows and the actual pool. Having a wall in between the two effectively means looking out your windows to a wall. Not exactly great ambiance.
    In that case, the fence uses the house as one of its sides, preferably with a door that beeps when it is opened. That's what I did with my pool.

    The issue is restricting access to the pool, not blocking it off completely. There are reasonable precautions that can be taken without ruining the aesthetic of the pool area.

    Now if you live miles from your neighbors and own several acres surrounding the pool plus you never allow children on your property, I would concede that you could skip the fence.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by reckless View Post
    If I had young children on my property, most definitely I would have a fence. I was responding to the laws requiring fences because pools could be an attractive nuisance that entice neighborhood children. I'm grandfathered at the moment from a fence law, but I may be required by law to have one if I remodel the pool.

    Oddly, the law does not apply to pools in apartment complexes or any residences other than single-family homes (e.g., duplexes).
    In many cases it is your homeowner's insurance company that requires the fence, regardless of local law.

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