View Poll Results: Who is the weakest link among these past ladies champions?

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  • Lu Chen

    12 4.00%
  • Michelle Kwan

    12 4.00%
  • Tara Lipinski

    60 20.00%
  • Maria Butyrskaya

    98 32.67%
  • Irina Slutskaya

    6 2.00%
  • Shizuka Arakawa

    9 3.00%
  • Mao Asada

    9 3.00%
  • Yuna Kim

    11 3.67%
  • Carolina Kostner

    83 27.67%
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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    No, it's not necessary, but I did it in the Men's thread because I thought it might be helpful.

    It's been eighteen years since Urmanov won and seventeen years since Chen won. I'm sure a lot of people on FSU weren't watching figure skating back then and may not have seen videos of their best skates. (I have a feeling that even fewer would be familiar with the earliest pairs if you were to include twelve of them in a poll.) Also, watching some of the videos again helped me make up my mind.

    OTOH, watching Elvis Stojko videos can be excruciating.
    Excellent point about the past skaters. I can't believe it's been 17-18 years since Urmy & Lulu won their WCs! Sometimes I wonder if we should separate those from the current/recent skaters?

  2. #62
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    If Butyrskaya loses this round, I'm organizing a mass board suicide.

    And we really should organize a bloc to get rid of someone unexpected in round 5. Kwan would be awesome.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    Cmon people... Vote out Maria !!!!!! Dont know how miki was voted out when she has won 2 world championships and at a point in her career could do 4S and numerous different 3-3 jumps. People vote for miki just because she isnt as pretty as everyone else.. And atleast Carolina can do 3-3, and she has done plenty of times in competition. Maria won worlds in a weaker field too, there was no tara lipinski and Kwan skated bad in the short. VOTE FOR MARIA....
    ITA! I liked Maria but her jumps were always so awkard and stiff even though she was musical. Miki did win two World Championships which was more then Maria. The skaters wins in major events are important.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by BmcC102 View Post
    This thread saddens me as a huge fan of Tara and Caro. The nasty comments hurt my soul.

    Although I do understand SOME of people's reasoning, even if I do not agree with it.

    Holley Calmes, please post a recent picture of yourself so we can judge whether or not your head is porpotional to your body... JK!
    yes I want to judge that too!!! What a stupid comment -- Tara's head looks in proportion to the rest of her body to me!!

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    1999 was a full field of competitors, LOL! The only people at those Worlds were Butyrskaya and Michelle Kwan. Irina Slutskaya was not at Worlds as she at the height of the worst slump of her career and missed the World team. Hughes was there but was 13 years old and grandfathered in, not a contender obviously. Lipinski and Chen were retired. Cohen was not on the scene yet. Suguri wasnt a contender yet, came something like 20th at those Worlds. It was about the furthest thing ever from a complete field (along with the 2011 and 2012 Worlds). In case you have forgotten Julia Soldatova was the bronze medalist at those Worlds, her only top 10 finish ever at Worlds.
    Ok, that's a fair point. I guess I meant that aside from Slutskaya, none of the big players competing during that time were missing/injured from 1999 Worlds. Whereas Miki and the Finnish skaters were not at 2012 Worlds. Frankly, I hate to choose from any of these ladies because they really were/are all so good and worthy World/Olympic champions!
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Are we going by competitiveness or accomplishments? I want to vote for Slutskaya despite all the world and Olympic medals simply because no matter how generous I want to be, I just couldn't come around to give her a 6.0.
    Can't speak for others, but I've been trying to balance competitive record and ability to deliver under pressure with skating skills and technical ability, while giving less weight to personal aesthetic preferences and giving zero weight to body type. For that reason I do not think Slutskaya or Lipinski should go anywhere just yet. Their skating skills, spins and footwork were good/excellent and their jumps were technically demanding. Lipinski's Olympic programs in particular were insanely difficult, with her triple-triple combo and sequence in the second half of her program. The fact that she was 4'9 and used age-appropriate music didn't make her "juniorish." I'd get rid of Butyrskaya, Kostner and Chen before Lipinski, though I doubt she'll last that long.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    Ok, that's a fair point. I guess I meant that aside from Slutskaya, none of the big players competing during that time were missing/injured from 1999 Worlds. Whereas Miki and the Finnish skaters were not at 2012 Worlds. Frankly, I hate to choose from any of these ladies because they really were/are all so good and worthy World/Olympic champions!

    Can't speak for others, but I've been trying to balance competitive record and ability to deliver under pressure with skating skills and technical ability, while giving less weight to personal aesthetic preferences and giving zero weight to body type. For that reason I do not think Slutskaya or Lipinski should go anywhere just yet. Their skating skills, spins and footwork were good/excellent and their jumps were technically demanding. Lipinski's Olympic programs in particular were insanely difficult, with her triple-triple combo and sequence in the second half of her program. The fact that she was 4'9 and used age-appropriate music didn't make her "juniorish." I'd get rid of Butyrskaya, Kostner and Chen before Lipinski, though I doubt she'll last that long.
    YES, ITA. The technical part is so important, but so is competitiveness!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post

    Can't speak for others, but I've been trying to balance competitive record and ability to deliver under pressure with skating skills and technical ability, while giving less weight to personal aesthetic preferences and giving zero weight to body type. For that reason I do not think Slutskaya or Lipinski should go anywhere just yet. Their skating skills, spins and footwork were good/excellent and their jumps were technically demanding. Lipinski's Olympic programs in particular were insanely difficult, with her triple-triple combo and sequence in the second half of her program. The fact that she was 4'9 and used age-appropriate music didn't make her "juniorish." I'd get rid of Butyrskaya, Kostner and Chen before Lipinski, though I doubt she'll last that long.
    ITA also. That's what I've been using more or less as a guideline when I vote. For me this isn't about voting for my favorite, it's about voting for the strongest skaters and the best competitors. Having the training habits and mental fortitude it takes to stand up on your jumps and skate lights out under the pressure of big events counts for a lot in my eyes. That's why I think it's Kostner's turn to bow out.

  8. #68
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    Irina and Tara were good enough to beat Michelle Kwan many times over in their primes. They would eat the likes of either erratic colty Kostner (young version) or more tamed and polished but scaled down 80s jumps content Kostner (current version) for breakfast. We already know how Irina and Kostner compare from their head to head competitions in Europe in the mid 2000s, no contest. As for Butryskaya we saw first hand how she compares to Irina and Tara in head to head competition, again no contest.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemy void View Post
    If Butyrskaya loses this round, I'm organizing a mass board suicide.


    And we really should organize a bloc to get rid of someone unexpected in round 5. Kwan would be awesome.

  10. #70
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    .... Carolina lost by one vote last round and now Maria is getting booted off? What is this?!!?!?!?

  11. #71
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    It is time for Chen to start getting some votes. I love her and she is a great champion and beautiful skater but she still isnt the dominant champion or all time great many of these others are.

  12. #72
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    ^ That's because politicking was almost never in her favor. NEVER. She won pretty much by herself, without the complete backing of her nation.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    .... Carolina lost by one vote last round and now Maria is getting booted off? What is this?!!?!?!?
    I know right! Maria was almost 20 votes behind caro in the last poll, and Tara was in fact even closer to caro than Maria. Why this sudden shift?

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    I know right! Maria was almost 20 votes behind caro in the last poll, and Tara was in fact even closer to caro than Maria. Why this sudden shift?
    All the votes from the previous loser (Ando) go to someone else (depending on criteria of each of the Ando voters), so not necesarrily the second voted from the previous one gets eliminated this time. That's the fun of the game.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    ^ That's because politicking was almost never in her favor. NEVER. She won pretty much by herself, without the complete backing of her nation.
    Thats true. I thought she was the best skater in the World from 1993-1996, although I am not sure that is a popular viewpoint. Then again is the Chinese fed. as weak as people say they are. Shen & Zhou's and the various Chinese pairs teams scores (often inflated for all of them IMO) suggest otherwise. Granted this is now, and that was then.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    It is time for Chen to start getting some votes. I love her and she is a great champion and beautiful skater but she still isnt the dominant champion or all time great many of these others are.
    I plan on voting for her once Maria and Carolina are out if that's any consolation Considering her medal count and her awesome skating I think she more than deserves to be here at this point.

  17. #77
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    ^ It makes me sad that Lulu is starting to get some votes. She was a two time Olympic bronze medalist, which can't be said of a few of the ladies skaters up there. And we all know what the real color of her medal should have been at the 94 Olympics... And she definitely should have been in the top 3 in the LP in Albertville, with her 6 triple LP... She's by far the best artist of any of the ladies listed on the poll and had some sizable jumps in her prime (and didn't stuggle with any of them unlike some of the others in the poll in her prime, even though it's really a shame her jumps started falling apart with all the problems she dealt with post-96). On top of that, she has 1 World gold medal, 1 world silver medal, and 2 world bronzes, which is many more than what some of the others got (aka Yuna, Tara, Shiz, and Maria).

    At this rate, it looks like Slutskaya is going to win...
    Last edited by smarts1; 06-12-2012 at 03:52 AM.

  18. #78
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    Another interesting thing is that it is obvious the prevailing consensus is Slutskaya >>>>>>>>>> Lipinski. While I am not saying that is wrong, Irina did have the far longer and more successful career, and even was a threat to Tara atleast in the 97 season which it turned out was basically Tara's peak despite being only 14-15, and when Irina was nothing like the skater of future years, there is another interesting way to look at things. Irina competed near the top as a gold contender basically every year from 1996-2006, missing out on a year or two due to illness and family grief (2003-2004) and managed only 2 World titles as far as Olympic and World wins. Lipinski competed at the top level only 11 months and managed an Olympic and World title, actually trumping Irina as far as World/Olympic wins in 10% the time. Just some food for thought.

  19. #79
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    Argh, why has the tide turned against Masha. Her World title performance was more difficult and more memorable than Caro's! And more memorable than Mao's and Yu Na's Worlds LPs too, for that matter. (That's right, I said it.)

    And these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7dmp_GaJcw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVt3I4IL18s

    Come on, people!

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiK View Post
    All the votes from the previous loser (Ando) go to someone else (depending on criteria of each of the Ando voters), so not necesarrily the second voted from the previous one gets eliminated this time. That's the fun of the game.
    I guess. It just seems that the first poll was a close comp between kimmie and Sarah. Once kimmie was out, sarah soon followed in the second poll. The third poll was a close comp between miki and caro, so with miki gone it just seems logical for caro to soon go I number 4. The sudden turn of tide against Maria doesn't make sense to me, but I'll take your word for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Another interesting thing is that it is obvious the prevailing consensus is Slutskaya >>>>>>>>>> Lipinski. While I am not saying that is wrong, Irina did have the far longer and more successful career, and even was a threat to Tara atleast in the 97 season which it turned out was basically Tara's peak despite being only 14-15, and when Irina was nothing like the skater of future years, there is another interesting way to look at things. Irina competed near the top as a gold contender basically every year from 1996-2006, missing out on a year or two due to illness and family grief (2003-2004) and managed only 2 World titles as far as Olympic and World wins. Lipinski competed at the top level only 11 months and managed an Olympic and World title, actually trumping Irina as far as World/Olympic wins in 10% the time. Just some food for thought.
    It was fascinating to see them as juniors in the "the way they were" thread. Tara had it all over irina in every way. I dont know how anyone looked at that hot mess of an lp by irina and thought "future great champion". Without a doubt, one of the most overrated skaters of all time IMHO.

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