View Poll Results: Who is the weakest link among these past ladies champions?

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  • Lu Chen

    12 4.00%
  • Michelle Kwan

    12 4.00%
  • Tara Lipinski

    60 20.00%
  • Maria Butyrskaya

    98 32.67%
  • Irina Slutskaya

    6 2.00%
  • Shizuka Arakawa

    9 3.00%
  • Mao Asada

    9 3.00%
  • Yuna Kim

    11 3.67%
  • Carolina Kostner

    83 27.67%
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    No.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by centerstage01 View Post
    The people voting that the weakest skaters were Kwan, Slutskaya, Kim, or Chen...really? You can't put aside your hate to honestly look at accomplishments and be objective?
    The only round so far that I feel voters got it right is the first round, picking Meissner.

    Since then I truly think weaker skaters have remained at the expense of more "unpopular" skaters. But this is not unlike any other fan voting contest. Does the best singer always win American Idol?
    Last edited by RD; 06-10-2012 at 12:55 AM.

  3. #43
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    I voted for Butyrskaya last time, but I changed my mind and voted for Kostner this time.. some arguments against Kostner on here in the last thread really swayed my decision.

  4. #44
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    still voted Lipinski: junior-ish and couldn't hold a deep edge (in comparison to Burtyrskaya and Kostner)

    just can't get over that. Been voting for her for awhile. Sure she could land difficult jumps, but skating skills are more important. She's basically the same as Surya Bonaly, big jumps no skating.

  5. #45

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    I went with Maria last round but I am going with Kostner this round. Much as I really do like Caro and overall prefer her skating to Maria's, I have to factor in competitive record a bit, and she won Worlds in a weak field with two flawed (albeit lovely) routines, whereas Maria skated two very strong programs and beat a pretty full field of competitors (including MK) in 1999.

  6. #46
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    I've learned my lesson, no more early voting.

    I'll wait until the end to try to prevent another mis-carriage of justice (Miki 'true diva' Ando removed before Carolina 'boring stumbler' Kostner?

    I'll wich way the wind is blowing before trying to rescue Butyrskaya...

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    I went with Maria last round but I am going with Kostner this round. Much as I really do like Caro and overall prefer her skating to Maria's, I have to factor in competitive record a bit, and she won Worlds in a weak field with two flawed (albeit lovely) routines, whereas Maria skated two very strong programs and beat a pretty full field of competitors (including MK) in 1999.
    1999 was a full field of competitors, LOL! The only people at those Worlds were Butyrskaya and Michelle Kwan. Irina Slutskaya was not at Worlds as she at the height of the worst slump of her career and missed the World team. Hughes was there but was 13 years old and grandfathered in, not a contender obviously. Lipinski and Chen were retired. Cohen was not on the scene yet. Suguri wasnt a contender yet, came something like 20th at those Worlds. It was about the furthest thing ever from a complete field (along with the 2011 and 2012 Worlds). In case you have forgotten Julia Soldatova was the bronze medalist at those Worlds, her only top 10 finish ever at Worlds.

    That said I do agree Maria`s winning performances was better than Kostner`s at this past years Worlds, although Kostner`s were also very strong, and would have beaten her under any scoring system.

  8. #48
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    It was a different time and a different judging system. Maria attempted all 7 triples because it was practically a requirement. She also later upped her game with 3/3 attempts, 3-3 seq, 2 3z attempts, etc... All with an effort toward variety and choreo and style. She may not have been the worlds best spinner, but several were lovely and choreoed well.. I loved her combo spin w the hands held behind her back.

    I'd love to say that Caro's complete lack of personality or style was down to cop. No, cop only discourages unique programs the viewers want to see. Caro was just as dull under 6.0. Her only interest was a youthful hyperness that most jumping beans fresh off juniors have.

    It's a joke to say Maria didn't have competition... She skated at one of the most competitive times in history, an era when caro was regularly buried down in 12th despite all the hype. Plus she had home completion, and then facing irina again at euros, etc... Does kostner even go to nats, or does Italy just mail her the gold in germany every year? She lost euros twice during he reighn... To Meier and lepisto! Talk about lack of competition! She still couldn't even pull it off!

    Maria worked hard to be a success despite many obstacles. Lack of true champion talent seems to be kostner's only obstacle. Good for her that she won this past worlds. Lord knows there were plenty of times in the past where she also had it in the bag but still managed to f it up.

    Sorry caro, but you need to go now.

  9. #49
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    Sigh. I can't believe Kostner and Butyrskaya are tied again, Kostner really needs to go (should've gone in the last round).

    Words cannot describe how happy I was for Carolina when she won Worlds this year. The past couple years she has finally been able to pull off near-clean longs at Worlds, and I'm thrilled she finally won. I was exasperated with her when she took Valentina's spot for Vancouver despite bombing worlds (and then she bombed at Olympics as well), but changed my mind when she somehow pulled off a great program at Torino. I was bummed she got dinged for her jumps there. Since then I've always wanted to support Carolina, but Maria is clearer the stronger candidate here.

    Maria's win in 1999 was achieved with much stronger programs than Carolina's this year. Despite Carolina's great skating skills, I've never enjoyed her skating too much. Nothing Carolina has done can reach Scene d'Amour in 2000, or Maria's winning LP in 1999.

  10. #50
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    This thread saddens me as a huge fan of Tara and Caro. The nasty comments hurt my soul.

    Although I do understand SOME of people's reasoning, even if I do not agree with it.

    Holley Calmes, please post a recent picture of yourself so we can judge whether or not your head is porpotional to your body...

    JK!

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    It's a joke to say Maria didn't have competition...
    I didnt say she had weak competition. I said the year she won Worlds was a weak field (which it was, other than Kwan and Butyrskaya there was nobody there unless you count a 13 year old Hughes, and Soldatova became a World medalist that year). Not her fault of course, she did still skate excellent programs to win. She did skate in strong eras but was a dark horse competitor in them, shining in the brief 1-2 year transition period after a bunch of people retired, and before some new ones emerged.

    Kostner won Worlds with a weak field too, but she almost won Worlds in 2008 over a very strong field, and that was with nowhere near her best performance. Anyway both excelled when the competition was weaker, and couldnt hang with the big guns in full flow, so no difference between the two there. Butyrskaya as competition for Michelle Kwan for instance was as much or a bigger joke than say Kostner as competition to Yu Na Kim.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 06-11-2012 at 03:42 AM.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by BmcC102 View Post
    Holley Calmes, please post a recent picture of yourself so we can judge whether or not your head is porpotional to your body...

    JK!
    It is. If you want to see my picture, just google me. I have a regular newspaper column every week with a head shot which should show enough of my body to satisfy your needs.

    Listen, when you become a public figure, you open yourself up to public comments. I never said Tara was ugly or deformed. I just never cared for her look because I didn't care for her proportions visually. I just never was her fan, but so what? That's purely a personal aesthetic opinion, and I am entitled to it. It's like people prefering the Kriov to the Bolshoi. Just a different aesthetic. It doesn't man she's a leper.

    But yes, I must say my head is perfectly proportioned to my body. Thanks very much.

  13. #53
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    Are we going by competitiveness or accomplishments? I want to vote for Slutskaya despite all the world and Olympic medals simply because no matter how generous I want to be, I just couldn't come around to give her a 6.0.

    But then I don't want to waste my vote so I will use it later when the result of this whole Butyrskaya / Kostner battle becomes clearer. I am still undecided between these two but am pretty sure I would like Slutskaya gone before either of them.

  14. #54

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    Now this will be quite interesting as many decided not to waste their vote and put it up on the last minute despite a clear opinion on the weakest champion. On the other side, it's clear as we have a opinion who should not go and so we have to go with our vote to save who should pass the round

  15. #55
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    Seriously, there should be one of these for pairs and especially one for ice dance.

    It will be a good way to pass the off season, it's fun, it's already providing some and I'm loving the talk of voting strategies.

    Maybe an alliance will form to take out Kwan or Yuna early.

  16. #56
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    I'm surprised to find out Maria is about to be taken out.
    She had a level of maturity unseen in ladies figure skating. A real lady on ice.

    I also think highly of her overcoming competition nerves she had suffered for so long and finally putting everything together in 99 Worlds at age of 26.
    She skated 2 beautiful flawless programs, and won that event in a convincing manner.

    Even Michelle Kwan cited Maria as being one of her inspirations that kept her in competitions well into mid 20's.

    Kostner also have her wonderful aspects to her skating, but she always left somethings to be desired in her medal winning competitions.
    She was far from convincing when she won Worlds medals in 05, 08, and 11.
    Her win in 2012 was good, but it lacked executions of more difficult triple jumps unlike other champion performances.
    Last edited by RumbleFish; 06-11-2012 at 06:35 PM.

  17. #57

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    I can't understand Tara is still in the game, she is so juniorish

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post


    It is. If you want to see my picture, just google me. I have a regular newspaper column every week with a head shot which should show enough of my body to satisfy your needs.

    Listen, when you become a public figure, you open yourself up to public comments. I never said Tara was ugly or deformed. I just never cared for her look because I didn't care for her proportions visually. I just never was her fan, but so what? That's purely a personal aesthetic opinion, and I am entitled to it. It's like people prefering the Kriov to the Bolshoi. Just a different aesthetic. It doesn't man she's a leper.

    But yes, I must say my head is perfectly proportioned to my body. Thanks very much.
    There's a big difference between judging a skater's line, extension, toe point, back arch, etc and calling their head "too big for their body."
    If that's the sort of quality you look for in a skater it really speaks volumes about your taste level. Maybe Miss Universe with Donald Trump is a better fit.

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by casken View Post
    Seriously, there should be one of these for pairs and especially one for ice dance.

    It will be a good way to pass the off season, it's fun, it's already providing some and I'm loving the talk of voting strategies.

    Maybe an alliance will form to take out Kwan or Yuna early.
    I had thought of starting similar polls for ice dance and pairs, but I was not sure it would be good to have so many similar polls (arguments?) going on simultaneously. The other question was- is it necessary to post Yt links for the skaters on the poll? I appreciate what the starters of the current two polls have done, because it takes a long time to do that. My feeling is that the voters did not really use those links to cast their votes.

    Regardless of the arguments and some hurt feelings, overall it's been fun.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    The other question was- is it necessary to post Yt links for the skaters on the poll? I appreciate what the starters of the current two polls have done, because it takes a long time to do that. My feeling is that the voters did not really use those links to cast their votes.
    No, it's not necessary, but I did it in the Men's thread because I thought it might be helpful.

    It's been eighteen years since Urmanov won and seventeen years since Chen won. I'm sure a lot of people on FSU weren't watching figure skating back then and may not have seen videos of their best skates. (I have a feeling that even fewer would be familiar with the earliest pairs if you were to include twelve of them in a poll.) Also, watching some of the videos again helped me make up my mind.

    OTOH, watching Elvis Stojko videos can be excruciating.

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