One more spin question re: proposed ISU level changes.

[Jozet]

Okay, I've read this several times, and for some reason I can't get through my head what it means exactly. If someone could break it down for me in simple language that would be great.

For Updated Levels of Difficulty there is this:

1) Difficult variations (count as many times as performed with limitations specified below)

And this:

"Any category of difficult spin variation in a basic position counts only once per program (first time it is attempted). A difficult variation in a non-basic position counts once per program in spin combination only (first time it is attempted)."

I'm feeling really stupid. How is the category of variation counted as many times as performed, but then only once per program. I'm guessing I'm not understanding some of the basic terminology here. "Difficult variation" refers to, for example, a back tuck sit or a pancake, yes? Or a haircutter? Or a catch foot camel? Or is this where I'm getting it wrong.

Maybe an example of what a skater could perform as far as counting difficult spin variations now as opposed to what spins within a program might look like after July 1 (is that the date?)

Thanks for any explanation. I'm feeling really dumb right now.

[gkelly]

The way I understand it, there are 11 categories of difficult variations:

camel forward, sideways, and upright (3)
sit forward, sideways, and behind (3)
upright forward, straight/sideways, Biellmann, and layback (4)
intermediate (1)

You can only use one variation from each of those categories in each program. So, for instance, you couldn't get credit for a pancake position with the free leg in front and also sitspin with the free leg forward and the upper body twisted in the same program (whether in the same spin or different spins, on the same or opposite foot) because they both fall in the same category of "sit forward" difficult variations.

But you could get credit for one of those positions and also for a broken-leg sitspin, because one would be from the sit forward category and one from the sit sideways category.

Each category of difficult variation can only get credit once per program.

Up to six(? max two per spin?) different categories of difficult variations in the program can get credit if they each meet the criteria.

[Aussie Willy]

It is also worth looking at the Technical Panel Handbook as that has pictures of the difficult variations and intermediate positions.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf

[Jozet]

You can only use one variation from each of those categories in each program. So, for instance, you couldn't get credit for a pancake position with the free leg in front and also sitspin with the free leg forward and the upper body twisted in the same program (whether in the same spin or different spins, on the same or opposite foot) because they both fall in the same category of "sit forward" difficult variations.

Okay...see, I thought this was already the rule...? Or is this not part of the changes for spins this time around? Or were we following a rule that wasn't instituted yet, lol.

So, to see that I got this right: a death drop into pancake (forward tuck) is done. So then, for the combo spin, if the skater does a front pike position (leg straight out, nose to knee, for example), that wouldn't count as a difficult variation toward gaining spin level.

Did I get that right?

[Jozet]

It is also worth looking at the Technical Panel Handbook as that has pictures of the difficult variations and intermediate positions.

Thank you!

[gkelly]

Okay...see, I thought this was already the rule...? Or is this not part of the changes for spins this time around? Or were we following a rule that wasn't instituted yet, lol.

I think this was new last year; this year the change is that jump within a spin and increase of speed now count as independent features rather than as difficult variations (i.e., you can do either or both of those features in addition to two difficult positions per spin).

So, to see that I got this right: a death drop into pancake (forward tuck) is done. So then, for the combo spin, if the skater does a front pike position (leg straight out, nose to knee, for example), that wouldn't count as a difficult variation toward gaining spin level.

Did I get that right?

That's my understanding.

[aster]

Skaters could do two DVs from each category last year as long as they were significantly different (ie, a pancake and a forward twist, but not two pancakes), but the new rules limit it to one.

[Jozet]

Skaters could do two DVs from each category last year as long as they were significantly different (ie, a pancake and a forward twist, but not two pancakes), but the new rules limit it to one.

Okay, thank you! That's the part I was missing.