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  1. #121

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    Please enlighten us, Ziggy.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    Please enlighten us, Ziggy.
    Bashing: 'Johnny Weir is an ugly twat.'

    Criticism: Some posts in this thread.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    There is a difference between criticizing and bashing. What's being commented on here are Johnny's comments and his attitude. Not all of us think he is perfect, nor do we agree with his suggestions that he should have been 3rd in Vancouver or is the "saviour" of men's figure skating in the US. We're not calling him stupid or untalented. We're simply providing our opinions on the interview and how he conducts himself in public.

    Personally, I adore his skating when he gives it his all. The public persona, not so much, and he seems to let that persona get in the way of the skating (After he won his first US Championship in 2004,I honestly expected he'd have at least one World gold and Olympic medal before the end of the decade). And that's not a bash, just an opinion.
    Oh phleaze, give me a break! I have never seen ANYONE in this thread call Johnny perfect, nor a saviour of anything. Some people have wished him well. Meanwhile, people like you bash him and his skating at every opportunity and the same exact individuals have been doing this for years, regardless of whether he was at his best or his worst or anything in between. They invade any Johnny thread with this bashing because they are professional Johnny bashers. And that's fine. That's your right. But don't pretend to be anything other than that.

    Vilifying his character and making statements like "he makes my skin crawl" and "I almost threw up," while gleefully predicting either bankruptcy, downfall or divorce is not 'criticism'. It's bashing. Hey, no one is stopping you, you have the right to do it. Just please, call a spade a spade, why don't you.

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by psycho View Post

    Vilifying his character and making statements like "he makes my skin crawl" and "I almost threw up," while gleefully predicting either bankruptcy, downfall or divorce is not 'criticism'. It's bashing. Hey, no one is stopping you, you have the right to do it. Just please, call a spade a spade, why don't you.
    Thank you, psycho.
    Those were the comments that inspired my question.

    I find them insulting.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Bashing: 'Johnny Weir is an ugly twat.'

    Criticism: Some posts in this thread.
    I would define bashing as "unreasonable negativity" and criticism as "reasonable negativity," for want of a better definition, but I think for most of us, it's really more like this:

    Bashing: Anything negative said about someone I like.

    Criticism: Anything negative said about someone I don't like.

    The difference is usually only apparent if there is some level of objectivity or neutrality on the part of either poster or reader.

    What I don't understand is why, in spite of hundreds of thousands of posts providing evidence to the contrary, people expect anything else or think that posting requests for people to be nice will result in change. If anything, one positive post after another invites negative posts. That's they way it goes. This is not a fan board; people are not required to be positive, nor would things be very interesting if everyone agreed to be nice all the time. If that's what you are looking for, there are other forums where you can find it.

    From my POV, Johnny is one of the skaters on the board who gets a strong but balanced response, primarily because he has as many passionate fans as he does detractors, and so all of his threads tend to have both positive and negative posts (and usually some sort of devolution into this particular discussion at some point, which always arises from someone definding Johnny from the negative posts). There are some skaters who seem to be almost (but never entirely) universally disliked, and I find that more of a concern, as all kinds of negative comments are made on threads about them and are hardly challenged at all.

    But maybe that's just me.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  6. #126
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    Thank you for posting and for translating the Interview TAHbKA.

    Loved that interview. I'm very much looking forward to see him skating again at major competitions.

    About bashing - I like Johnny's skating and personality. But I can see how others might just perceive it the other way round. It's perfectly ok for me, when someone speaks out that he does not like someone's skating or behaviour, as it has been mentioned this is a message and not a fan baord. However, I don't think bashing is simply criticism towards a skater one likes, but it's criticism stated in a way that is plain disrespectful and insulting. I don't like it no matter which skaters is adressed by it and I wish it would happen less frequent.

    But back to topic - GO JOHNNY! Good luck for returning to competitive skating.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by psycho View Post
    Vilifying his character and making statements like "he makes my skin crawl" and "I almost threw up," while gleefully predicting either bankruptcy, downfall or divorce is not 'criticism'. It's bashing. Hey, no one is stopping you, you have the right to do it. Just please, call a spade a spade, why don't you.
    Pardon me, but most of the posters in this thread have never made any statements such as those. Most posts on this thread including mine have just stated what we we thought about his interview and the persona he projected during it. Take it as you will, apparently in your book, ANY criticism of Johnny is bashing and no-one who criticizes him should enter a Johnny thread. Too bad the thread starter didn't explain that by listing this in the Trash Can as a Johnny lovefest thread. Putting an interview by any skater in Great Skate Debate is going to bring forth a lot of opinions, and the fact that you don't care for some of them doesn't change that. Good grief!
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    Pardon me, but most of the posters in this thread have never made any statements such as those.
    Are you sure?

    Quote Originally Posted by alchemy void View Post
    But this interview made me nauseous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marge_Simpson View Post
    Johnny makes my skin crawl.
    I remember the divorce and bankruptcy comments, too, although I don't remember where they were.

    But if that's an honest reaction, then...is it bashing or just an honest reaction?
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  9. #129

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    It's possible to express disapproval in ways that aren't insulting.
    Of course, others may disagree.

    I'll continue to wish it were otherwise.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    It's possible to express disapproval in ways that aren't insulting.
    It's possible in some cases, not in others. If, as psycho requests, we are going to call a spade a spade, well, some things just cannot be said in positive ways. If Johnny's interview genuinely nauseates someone, how can that be said in a way that won't be taken as insulting?

    One man's insult is another man's truth, after all, and the only person who can really say what is hurtful and insulting is the target.

    Of course, we could all hold back on saying anything that could be construed as insulting or hurtful, but that doesn't make for much of a discussion.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  11. #131
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    When someone has a personality like Johnny's, they open themselves to criticism. I am sure he knows that by being as blunt as he is, he is going to open himself up to a wave of opinions. Its not like he is Rachel Flatt who is sweet and never (openly) said a negative or controversial thing her entire career yet for some reason gets tarred and feathered for something as simple as talking about how well she does in school. Johnny knowingly likes to stir the pot. I personally think its fine but some people find this type of personality obnoxious...which is fine also because it is. I just happen to be entertained by it.

  12. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Are you sure?





    I remember the divorce and bankruptcy comments, too, although I don't remember where they were.

    But if that's an honest reaction, then...is it bashing or just an honest reaction?
    Note that I said "most," not "all." Have there been some rather negative statements here? Yes, and they may be honest reactions, but some of them are a bit over the top IMO (Charles Manson makes my "skin crawl," but Johnny, good grief, give me a break). I guess in the long run, one person's view of what is a bash might be another's criticism or another's "honest reaction." That said, I agree with you comments about Johnny provoking strong reactions. And a board serves to allow different opinions, which is why I roll my eyes at times when an uber cries "you're bashing my favorite, boo hoo, not fair!!!!"
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    I wonder if his marriage will last till Sochi.
    \\


    The only marriage related comment I could find

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by judiz View Post
    \\


    The only marriage related comment I could find
    Me too, and I guess my persecution monitor is on the fritz. I could not see how that translated into "gleefully predicting divorce".

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by minignome View Post
    Me too, and I guess my persecution monitor is on the fritz. I could not see how that translated into "gleefully predicting divorce".
    Then you haven't read enough Johnny Weir threads on this forum.

  16. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by psycho View Post
    They invade any Johnny thread with this bashing because they are professional Johnny bashers.
    Professional? You can get paid for it? Where do I sign up?
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
    Old, lonely, pathos-hungry, and extremely gullible

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marge_Simpson View Post
    Johnny makes my skin crawl. I posted this in the "NYC Ballet Fans" thread, but I'm reposting here. This is NOT appropriate attire for a ballet gala.

    http://bfanyc.com/home/photo/404451#anchor
    Goodness, how many Birkin bags does Johnny own?!

  18. #138
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    I hope his training is going well, but I fear this is like Cohen back in 09. When Weir first came on the scene I was a huge fan. I loved his effortless skating, particular that 3axel-3toe, and predicted he'd be on many world and olympic podiums. Then it seemed he got caught up in a cult of personality rut, he didn't bother to learn the new IJS rules and sometimes gave away wins or podiums for lack of basic math skills. The worse his skating and results, the more outrageous his interviews and behavior were. I hope married life has stablilized him a bit more and he reenters competition and training with more maturity and respect for his talent.
    I will not be ignored! -Me

  19. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bournekraatzfan View Post
    Goodness, how many Birkin bags does Johnny own?!
    Yes...it would probably look better if he wasn't begging for sponsors and bragging about his Birkin bags in the same breath.

    That just really, really, really bugged me.

  20. #140
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    Johnny knows IJS rules perfectly well. Anyone listening to his commentary at 2010 worlds or 2012 nationals knows that. Also, IJS is not a perfect indicator of your worth as a skater. It is simply a system du jour that is used to score current competitive performances. There is much more to skating than that.

    In fact, there is more than one way to achieve success in skating. One way is to pander to the judges (and federations, and play a political game etc.) and win at all costs. That gets you top medals. But another way is to put out memorable, athletic AND artistic product out there, which captures the audience's hearts and minds. You pander to the audience first and foremost. And that's a way to achieve skating glory and international fan support. So just because Johnny (either consciously or unconsciously) took the second road to success, arguably the less travelled one, that does not make him a failure. He has put out countless memorable and breathtaking performances, and just because they did not result in top medals (for whatever reason) does not diminish them in any way. That's why he has hordes of fans and supporters around the world. And that's why he is considered a success by so many (as much as that irks a few others).


    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Yes...it would probably look better if he wasn't begging for sponsors and bragging about his Birkin bags in the same breath.

    That just really, really, really bugged me.
    Why? These things are not mutually exclusive. He is looking for sponsors, not standing on the street corner asking for change. Sponsorship is a mutually beneficial relationship between a product and a person asked to promote it.
    Last edited by psycho; 06-12-2012 at 04:04 PM. Reason: spelling and wording

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