How Do You Rate Belbin & Agosto?

[kwanette]

ITA but not sure if the costumes were entirely her idea.As for the programs she didnt do them a favor at all.It was kind of disturbing and as much as she wanted to give them their own style both OD and FD(as a choreo) looked like replicas of some programs from Z/S period plus overdone expressions.

Disturbing is a good word.

It was sabotage...IMHO.

[martyross]

I like "Ave Maria" a lot, always liked, ugly costumes or not. In the end costumes are just pieces of fabric; the way the bodies move and emote, that's what matter. And they emoted a lot, and Ben Agosto, as Carmen said, skated brilliantly. His stroking was a joy to watch. And it wasn't the costumes that denied them the bronze medal.
it was a Russian type of program, kind of emphatic, true, but skated with sincerity and commitment to the concept.
concept that could seem rather old-fashioned to an American audience, but as an European grown up dipped in Catholicism and Baroque, I could feel the vibes.
and, ahem, the choreography was actually more interesting than the majority of Zueva/Shpilband's ones.
In Vancouver, they lacked in spark maybe because of nerves, or because they knew they were being dumped by the judges, but anyway they did a really good job that night and it's a a little sad watching them now knowing how it ended.

[vivika1982]

It is true. The clothes are just a piece of fabrics. Anyway the main question was "How do you rate B/A".It wasn’t about their fashion or skating styles and they define their appeal but not their ability.BTW when it comes to skating style I am lost because how many of Ice dance teams have their own unique style. IMHO in the last decade Anissina/Peizerat, Kerr’s, Pechalat/Bourzat, DenStas, DelShoes were the teams with certain style. Even for them I am not sure how correct is to say”their” style since in most cases the coaches and choreographers are creating the program. Of course the skaters have their fair share too but mainly it is a team work.
Let’s get back to the topic. I’ve always admired B/A. I liked the combination of Ben’s charming and goofy approach and Tanith’s Holly Golightly likeness. Was Ben better skater than Tanith? Yes, he was but together they were maybe not the best but one of the best at least on my rating scale

[sap5]

Ben is one of the best dancers on the ice I've ever seen -- and by that, I don't mean in the traditional "ice-dance" sense -- I mean in the club/hip hop dancing sense. I loved watching him in shows and group numbers because he always really got the rhythm and knew how to move to music. He was a lot of fun to watch.

[Carmen Ovsiannikov]

Okay, so I know thread drift is common on FSU, but I really did want people to rate Tanith and Ben as individual skaters and not rehash why they hated their programs and what medals they may or may not have deserved. Or even mention what programs they did like. That's what happens in every other thread to do with B&A and that's not what I wanted this one to be about.

Course given the general sentiments about them around here, I suppose I should've expected it, so maybe I should just consider this a failed thread.

That was why I included the at the beginning of my answer. I would have been more surprised if the thread hadn't veered off in the direction that it has.

I get that not everyone is going to like every team but somehow B&A have become one of the most reviled teams I've ever seen and some of the hatred for them seems OTT and way out of proportion to what they did on the ice or what Tanith and Ben's personalities were/are off the ice. I keep wondering if I missed something; if some people know something that I don't about B&A which would account for the complete distaste for them. Especially given that as Cloudy_Gumdrops said, there are teams who are competing at the present and teams who are no longer competing who had the same issues as B&A if not worse. It seems like a double standard.

Usually with the passage of time, opinions change or at least soften. I've had teams whom I did not like or who had results I disagreed with but now looking back I can put things into perspective. I was wondering if that might happen with B&A but it seems the further away we get from the last Olympic quadrennial the more hated they become.

Again, I'm not beggining people to love B&A but I'm just wondering what accounts for the degree of hate directed at them.

[gingercrush]

I didn't like them. Ben was eww in every sense of the word and I didn't like her. I didn't like his look. He looked like he had watched every low-tier ice dancer there ever was and added a double dose of ugly. She skated with her arse sticking out.

[blue_idealist]

I never got the hate for them on this board. They're one of my favourite teams.

[shady82]

In terms of achievement and skill level, I'd put B/A on par with Bourne/Kraatz. B/K won the World title but not an Olympic medal, while B/A won an Olympic medal but not the World title. Their skill levels in relation to the rest of their field was pretty similar as well.

I thought B/A was overrated during their early, 'perky' years. Their technical content, speed, and sharpness got them far during that time, though I felt they were overrated in Torino.

After those years, Belbin worked on smoothing out her basics, and they had a couple really good, mature programs. However, I don't think they ever developed enough of a 'zing' to propel them to the top. Other teams caught up to them and exceeded them in terms of technical difficulty. Denkova/Staviski got to the top because of their outstanding, innovative style and technical capabilities. V/M reached the top because they were simply unsurpassed technically, and artistically rivaled the top teams. B/A were simply not strong enough technically and artistically at the same time to reach the top.

Regardless, they plowed the way for U.S. ice dance, and should be really proud of what they accomplished.

[RumbleFish]

In terms of achievement and skill level, I'd put B/A on par with Bourne/Kraatz. B/K won the World title but not an Olympic medal, while B/A won an Olympic medal but not the World title. Their skill levels in relation to the rest of their field was pretty similar as well.

I thought B/A was overrated during their early, 'perky' years. Their technical content, speed, and sharpness got them far during that time, though I felt they were overrated in Torino.

After those years, Belbin worked on smoothing out her basics, and they had a couple really good, mature programs. However, I don't think they ever developed enough of a 'zing' to propel them to the top. Other teams caught up to them and exceeded them in terms of technical difficulty. Denkova/Staviski got to the top because of their outstanding, innovative style and technical capabilities. V/M reached the top because they were simply unsurpassed technically, and artistically rivaled the top teams. B/A were simply not strong enough technically and artistically at the same time to reach the top.

Regardless, they plowed the way for U.S. ice dance, and should be really proud of what they accomplished.

This pretty much sums up my assessment of B/A as well.
I would say they weren't great, but good enough to lead discipline of ice dance in the U.S nevertheless.

[nuge]

[QUOTE=martyross;3587975]I like "Ave Maria" a lot,

Me too. Much better than I/K version zzzzz

[kittyjake5]

I never got the hate for them on this board. They're one of my favourite teams.

Ditto!

[paskatefan]

I never got the hate for them on this board. They're one of my favourite teams.

Same here!

[Subway]

I rate B&A as an almost-always entertaining team with a lot of charisma, a lot of fun and talent. Agosto was better - just stronger into the ice, more control. Tanith remained immature-looking in her movement and performance style - gangly and unfinished looking and sort of cheerleader in expression even when doing a serious program. She wasn't immature in her confidence and athleticism. B&A had such a nice feel good vibe between them. Most teams call each other their best friend but you could really feel it with them. They were able to communicate that they liked each other and had fun. I could even see them taking gold in 2006 and deserving it. I like them a whole lot better than Bourne & Kratz. The smiles and fun on the ice always felt real with B&A.

[Vash01]

I rate B&A as an almost-always entertaining team with a lot of charisma, a lot of fun and talent. Agosto was better - just stronger into the ice, more control. Tanith remained immature-looking in her movement and performance style - gangly and unfinished looking and sort of cheerleader in expression even when doing a serious program. She wasn't immature in her confidence and athleticism. B&A had such a nice feel good vibe between them. Most teams call each other their best friend but you could really feel it with them. They were able to communicate that they liked each other and had fun. I could even see them taking gold in 2006 and deserving it. I like them a whole lot better than Bourne & Kratz. The smiles and fun on the ice always felt real with B&A.

I agree with you on that (bolded portion). I think both B&A and B&K had a lot more potential and likeability about them in their first 2-3 years. They seemed to never realize their potential. B&K at least won the WC. B&A got closest to it in 2009, but not quite. I actually thought both D&W and V&M were better than them at that time, and felt that neither DomShab nor B&A deserved to win (am I opening a can of worms here?)

[LilJen]

I was never much of an ice dance fan--too much drama in general--but the first comp (a cheesefest) I saw live, B&A skated there. They got on the ice for the warmup and OHMIGOD his posture was amazing. Like I couldn't take my eyes off him. Like he could confess to being a serial killer and cannibal and I wouldn't believe him because his bearing was just so beautiful.

The Chopin FD was by far my favorite of theirs.

[screech]

I always thought Ben was great, and overall Tanith wasn't terrible, but she was pretty bad at some of the little things- her leg extension (never looked fully straightened), lack of toe point, lack of turn out, and regular toe-pushes. Personally I thought he could have had even more success with a different partner.