View Poll Results: Who is the weakest link?

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  • Alexei Urmanov

    57 24.46%
  • Todd Eldredge

    54 23.18%
  • Elvis Stojko

    22 9.44%
  • Ilia Kulik

    3 1.29%
  • Alexei Yagudin

    4 1.72%
  • Evgeni Plushenko

    2 0.86%
  • Stéphane Lambiel

    2 0.86%
  • Brian Joubert

    12 5.15%
  • Jeffrey Buttle

    27 11.59%
  • Evan Lysacek

    41 17.60%
  • Daisuke Takahashi

    5 2.15%
  • Patrick Chan

    4 1.72%
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  1. #41
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    Plushenko and Joubert aren't winning just because they have consistent quads, and Lysacek doesn't/never did. They are probably the weakest/least original SKATERS of the bunch, but two of the best jumpers.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Plushenko and Joubert aren't winning just because they have consistent quads, and Lysacek doesn't/never did. They are probably the weakest/least original SKATERS of the bunch, but two of the best jumpers.
    I could be mistaken about this, but I think Joubert is the only one on the list without a true flip.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Please explain this comment. He clearly out-skated every other competitor by a country mile at 2008 Worlds winning both the SP and LP segments. "Luck" had nothing to do with it. You almost make it sound as if he won by the skin of his teeth, like Lysacek did in 2010.
    Buttle was the most inconsistent jumper in the entire field (the 12 choices here). IIRC he won without even a 3A. (Lambiel did not have a 3A but he had a quad).

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Buttle was the most inconsistent jumper in the entire field (the 12 choices here). IIRC he won without even a 3A. (Lambiel did not have a 3A but he had a quad).
    Buttle landed three triple axels cleanly over the course of the competition, including one in a 3-2-2.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Buttle was the most inconsistent jumper in the entire field (the 12 choices here). IIRC he won without even a 3A. (Lambiel did not have a 3A but he had a quad).
    You do not remember correctly.

    Buttle's Short Program triple axel

    Buttle's Free Skate 3A+2T+2R combo

    Buttle's Free Skate solo triple axel

    By no means the best triple axels among the men on this list, but they all received postive GOE.

    Lambiel did triple axels in both programs and received negative GOE (-2.14 and -2.00).

    Incidentally, I think Buttle's technical content in those programs would have been completely beyond the capabilities of several of the men on this list, who could never at any time in their careers have done the footwork, spins, or transitions while keeping all of the jumps Buttle had in his program -- Plushenko, Joubert, and Stojko being the most obvious examples.

  6. #46

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    Since it is entirely up to us to use whatever criteria we want, I am not basing my vote on the WC winning program alone, but on several performances, over the career, to come up with the weakest link. This is no different from people voting against whoever they dislike, for whatever reason. Otherwise there is no way to justify the high votes Eldredge and Urmanov are getting. Their winning performances were fully deserving of the title. I don't dislike Buttle; I just did not respect his lack of jump consistency. One competition does not make me change my opinion. Anyone can have one great competition.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    One competition does not make me change my opinion. Anyone can have one great competition.
    Wait, are you speaking about Jeffrey Buttle or Ilia Kulik?

  8. #48
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    Wow, this is difficult. I'm torn between Urmanov, Joubert, and Lysacek.

    Joubert was strong for that one year he won, but the other years he simply wasn't contending for the top.

    Eldredge was a very strong skater, both technically and artistically. He lacked a quad and some originality, but the rest of his skating is exemplary.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Plushenko is one of the most hated skaters on this board.
    Which is why he has so many votes now?

  10. #50
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    I voted for Urmanov more as most disappointing career than anything else.

    It certainly wasn't his fault and it wasn't a reflection of his great abilities.

    But the sad fact is he was never able to get back onto a worlds or oly podium after his one big success.

    Longetivity at or near the top is a major criteria for me and he didn't have that. It was more a question of very bad luck than lack of skills (skating or competitive) but I had to vote for somebody and he was nominated

    That's also why I'm disappointed that Eldridge is getting so many votes, he had a lot of world medals over a lot of years.

    He wasn't Mr Excitement (wild understatement) but he had amazing skating skills from impressing the hell out of Toller Cranston with his figures to being the most all around versatile free skater of his time.

    His only real lack was the quad which became important too late for him to learn.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    I voted for Urmanov more as most disappointing career than anything else.

    It certainly wasn't his fault and it wasn't a reflection of his great abilities.

    But the sad fact is he was never able to get back onto a worlds or oly podium after his one big success.

    Longetivity at or near the top is a major criteria for me and he didn't have that. It was more a question of very bad luck than lack of skills (skating or competitive) but I had to vote for somebody and he was nominated

    That's also why I'm disappointed that Eldridge is getting so many votes, he had a lot of world medals over a lot of years.

    He wasn't Mr Excitement (wild understatement) but he had amazing skating skills from impressing the hell out of Toller Cranston with his figures to being the most all around versatile free skater of his time.

    His only real lack was the quad which became important too late for him to learn.
    Kulik did not have longevity, but you don't seem to mind that. He had an OGM and a world silver. I think Urmanov had an OGM and a world bronze, for a career that spanned much longer (6 yrs vs 3 yrs)

    Urmanov was around a long time, actually (from 92 when I first saw him to 99- that's 7 years; it's better than the average career for a singles skater, I think). He was young (20) in 92 but placed very well (5th). He even had a quad toe back then. He did win a world bronze (1993). As I explained in another post, he was injured after the SP at the 97 worlds and had to withdraw. He competed again but was not the same skater, due to the injury.

    Urmanov's career:

    92 Oly 5, WC 8
    93 WC3 (world bronze)
    94 WC 4, OGM
    95 WC 4
    96 WC 5
    97 WC WD
    98- did not make the team (Oly/WC; they had just two spots).
    99 WC 5

    By comparison, Kulik's career was very short (although I loved his skating).

    95- WC 9
    96- WC 2
    97 WC 5
    98 OGM
    Last edited by Vash01; 06-07-2012 at 07:51 AM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Kulik did not have longevity, but you don't seem to mind that. He had an OGM and a world silver. I think Urmanov had an OGM and a world bronze, for a career that spanned much longer (6 yrs vs 3 yrs)
    I thought of Kulik too (also a great skater). He'll get his chance next round.

    Also for some reason going from silver to ogm to the pros (and a long pro career) seems more impressive than bronze to ogm to never quite getting it together and a ... less distinguished pro career. I have a lot of respect for Urmanov for sticking it out so long in the eligible ranks but ....

    For skaters who had to make the choice between eligibles and the pros a substantial pro career counts for a lot in terms of longevity.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    Which is why he has so many votes now?
    LOL, I don't like his skating, and I don't like his behavior. But I admit he is a great skater, and I admire his technical abilities from the beginning of his career, the kid was so talented. That's why I didn't vote for him.

  14. #54
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    doublepost

  15. #55
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    So Stojko can hurl himself in the air and then stand up while hunched over consistently.

    Who cares if everything else about his skating, his off ice personality, the tiresome and insulting PR campaign, and Scott Hamilton's ass kissing were dreadful.

    Poor Urmanov. Hell, poor every other skater who got votes.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by casken View Post
    So Stojko can hurl himself in the air and then stand up while hunched over consistently.

    Who cares if everything else about his skating, his off ice personality, the tiresome and insulting PR campaign, and Scott Hamilton's ass kissing were dreadful.

    Poor Urmanov. Hell, poor every other skater who got votes.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    Longetivity at or near the top is a major criteria for me and he didn't have that.
    Actually Urmanov was top 5 at Worlds in his last 5 tries (93, 94, 95, 96, 99), top 5 at the Olympics in both tries (5th in 92, 1st in 94) and top 5 at Euros in his last 6 tries (92 - 95, 97, 99). He medalled at all his GP and GPF outings from 92 to 99 except one Nations Cup where he was 4th.

    How is that not longetivity near the top?

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I could be mistaken about this, but I think Joubert is the only one on the list without a true flip.
    Most top skaters can't do a proper flip and lutz these days. For men, lipping is more common, though Takahashi is a flutzer. That alone shouldn't put him on the list, I just don't think Joubert is all that great of a skater, if it weren't for his quads and good looks, I don't think he would have managed to become a World Champion.

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    Which is why he has so many votes now?
    LOL not even his most biased hater could have the courage to vote for him first... His achievements and impact on the sport is undeniable.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by casken View Post
    So Stojko can hurl himself in the air and then stand up while hunched over consistently.

    Who cares if everything else about his skating...were dreadful.
    A matter of opinion, but one can't deny his mark on the sport. He was without question the most consistent male skater of the 90's (6 World medals, 2 olympics medals, 4 Grand Prix medals, along with countless medals of other competitions), and he alone made the quad a staple of mens skating.

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