View Poll Results: Who is the weakest link among these past ladies champions?

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  • Lu Chen

    9 3.61%
  • Michelle Kwan

    3 1.20%
  • Tara Lipinski

    47 18.88%
  • Maria Butyrskaya

    43 17.27%
  • Irina Slutskaya

    3 1.20%
  • Shizuka Arakawa

    9 3.61%
  • Miki Ando

    62 24.90%
  • Mao Asada

    8 3.21%
  • Yuna Kim

    4 1.61%
  • Carolina Kostner

    61 24.50%
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    How can Miki be the weakest? She is a two time world champion, who landed all the difficult jumps except the 3A. Miki won in strong fields. Carolina won in the weakest field.
    Ando is the weakest in all aspects of figure skating except for the jumping department. She was almost always overmarked in the PCS by at least 10 marks, and would have never won her world titles had she been marked correctly.

    She really deserved low 50s for her FS performances. It rarely happened, but judging panel during 2007 TEB and 2008 SA did manage to mark her correctly in the low 50s.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartek View Post
    Personally, I find her artistry beautiful. She was the most feminine skater out there, a true lady on the ice IMO. But I agree she should be out.

    It was very sad that she lost her momentum after 2000 Worlds. However, if she had skated there cleanly I think she would've won. Following season, the judges gave up on her and she didn't even win the bronze at 2001 Worlds where she should have won IMO. 2000 NHK was also telling a lot where she lost to Slutskya. However, Maria herself said that she had lost because she had already qualified for the GPF and Slutskaya had needed points to qualify. Maybe that was true but I still think that at that point the judges just gave up on her.
    Maria was a beautiful skater who never really got the respect of the judges. May be her fed did not support her adequately because they wanted to promote Irina.

    Her landings on the jumps were a bit jerky but she had the correct edges (particularly on 3Lutz), had beautiful lines, sophistication and maturity to her skating. She was hosed at the 2001 worlds where she skated a truly beautiful LP- I watched it in person, and gave her a standing O.- but the judges placed her behind the juniorish Sarah Hughes.

    She totally earned her 1999 WC, skating two excellent performances. I don't buy the excuses that Kwan was sick, etc. Maria did her job and deserved the gold. She landed all the difficult jumps that others were landing, except for a 3-3 combination. I have no problem with her still being here on this poll.

  3. #83
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    I definitely think Kostner should be voted out, she won her world title with a doubled out jump, Maria didn't do that when she won worlds, she was a tough competitor and went after every jump. Same with Lipinski, she went after everything when she won.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by DickButtonFan View Post
    I definitely think Kostner should be voted out, she won her world title with a doubled out jump, Maria didn't do that when she won worlds, she was a tough competitor and went after every jump. Same with Lipinski, she went after everything when she won.
    Not to mention that the latter two had more difficult programs IMO.

  5. #85
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    I agree Maria deserved her 99 World title and that she could have defended her World title in 2000 if she skated better. However she wasnt a gold contender for a long time. Kostner and Ando were gold contenders over many years. Kostner nearly won Worlds in 2008 and then won it again in 2012. Ando won Worlds in 2007 and again in 2011. This shows they were gold contenders over a 5 or 6 year span. Maria was a gold contender in 1999 in the weak transition year with nobody there except Kwan, and then again in 2000 with the title of World Champion backing her up, never before, and never after. Most of her career she was only a bit contender with an outside shot at the bronze. Tara was only a gold contender for a couple years but that was at 14 and 15, then retiring, so that is a whole different thing.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I agree Maria deserved her 99 World title and that she could have defended her World title in 2000 if she skated better. However she wasnt a gold contender for a long time. Kostner and Ando were gold contenders over many years. Kostner nearly won Worlds in 2008 and then won it again in 2012. Ando won Worlds in 2007 and again in 2011. This shows they were gold contenders over a 5 or 6 year span. Maria was a gold contender in 1999 in the weak transition year with nobody there except Kwan, and then again in 2000 with the title of World Champion backing her up, never before, and never after. Most of her career she was only a bit contender with an outside shot at the bronze. Tara was only a gold contender for a couple years but that was at 14 and 15, then retiring, so that is a whole different thing.
    I did not see Kostner as a gold contender until this season. She did win a silver and a bronze but I strongly disagreed with those results. Even then she was not a gold contender. She was nowhere close to the gold medallist in her performance. She was coltish, extremely inconsistent, and overhyped initially because she could land all the jumps and 3-3 combinations, but rarely consistently in competitions.

    Ando, by contrast, was very consistent in landing difficult jumps & combinations. She lacked the charisma of some of the skaters, and was mainly a technical skater until she learned to skate with emotions. I would not compare Kostner with Ando, because even when undeveloped, Ando had the consistency needed to challenge for a world medal. When Kostner had her infamous meltdowns, which were frequent, it was painful to even watch her skate. She has matured with age, and has learned to control her nerves, but it is a very recent development.

  7. #87
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    Hmm....

    Maria's results at worlds consecitively were 4th, 5th, 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 4th. Yet you're all slagging her off as super inconsistent and never a gold medal contender.

    Yet shiz's results were 8th, 1st, 9th but she's considered one of the strongest ladies on the poll.

  8. #88
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    Doesn't even matter how long Kostner has been in the top ten, has she ever done a performance that would top Maria's 1999 World LP? I don't think she has even come close.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DickButtonFan View Post
    Doesn't even matter how long Kostner has been in the top ten, has she ever done a performance that would top Maria's 1999 World LP? I don't think she has even come close.
    Well I guess we have to agree to disagree. I think Carolina's LP at this year's Worlds was far better in every aspect - Caro's skating skills are better, her edges are smooth and easy (which I dont find is the case with Maria), her use of arms and upper body is much better balanced. Also, the quality of Carolina's jumps cannot be compared to Maria - Caro's air position, fast rotation, landings and speed out of the jumps are just exquisite. The same cannot be said about Maria's jumps which are often very scratchy and not very appealing to the eye. The only thing Maria had over Carolina in this particular performance was the lutz and imo Carolina makes up for that with all other aspects of her skating and the amazing quality of all of her other jump elements.

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by jiggs View Post
    Well I guess we have to agree to disagree. I think Carolina's LP at this year's Worlds was far better in every aspect - Caro's skating skills are better, her edges are smooth and easy (which I dont find is the case with Maria), her use of arms and upper body is much better balanced. Also, the quality of Carolina's jumps cannot be compared to Maria - Caro's air position, fast rotation, landings and speed out of the jumps are just exquisite. The same cannot be said about Maria's jumps which are often very scratchy and not very appealing to the eye. The only thing Maria had over Carolina in this particular performance was the lutz and imo Carolina makes up for that with all other aspects of her skating and the amazing quality of all of her other jump elements.
    You can't compare difficult jumps with easy ones, which Carolina did. While she has grown in her presentation, it has been a recent development. I would go for an all around skater like Maria over Carolina. Also the quality of her competition (Michelle, Irina) was much higher than what Carolina faced.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiggs View Post
    Well I guess we have to agree to disagree. I think Carolina's LP at this year's Worlds was far better in every aspect - Caro's skating skills are better, her edges are smooth and easy (which I dont find is the case with Maria), her use of arms and upper body is much better balanced. Also, the quality of Carolina's jumps cannot be compared to Maria - Caro's air position, fast rotation, landings and speed out of the jumps are just exquisite. The same cannot be said about Maria's jumps which are often very scratchy and not very appealing to the eye. The only thing Maria had over Carolina in this particular performance was the lutz and imo Carolina makes up for that with all other aspects of her skating and the amazing quality of all of her other jump elements.
    Let's not forget that Caro made a mistake in the short program as well...Maria skated two clean programs in 99 that would stand up well even now. In my book, she did better than any of the ladies this year (both programs considered).

  12. #92
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    How could people be voting for Carolina now. Her skating skills are far ahead of the likes of chen, lipinski and butyrskaya. Yes she didnt have a lutz, but her other jumps were perfect

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    Ando is the weakest in all aspects of figure skating except for the jumping department. She was almost always overmarked in the PCS by at least 10 marks, and would have never won her world titles had she been marked correctly.

    She really deserved low 50s for her FS performances. It rarely happened, but judging panel during 2007 TEB and 2008 SA did manage to mark her correctly in the low 50s.
    Gotta agree.

  14. #94
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    I voted Butyrskaya, as much as I like her, since the year she was World Champion she kind of won it because Michelle Kwan fell in the short program.. she was also inconsistent over her career and the Worlds win wasn't a lights out performance.. I really could have easily picked Kostner though, who really has similar issues (even MORE inconsistent than Butyrskaya/Worlds win wasn't a lights out performance since it lacked the high jump content usually present in a Worlds winning skate), or Ando because she's just BORING and finished so low at the last Olympics. Actually, I'm starting to question my decision. If I could change my vote I might change it to Kostner now lol.

  15. #95
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    How many in the remaining group had triple / triples?
    Last edited by essence_of_soy; 06-06-2012 at 10:36 AM.

  16. #96
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    Out of the whole list, Ando exhibits the least musicality and ability to execute complex choreography.

  17. #97
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    lol at Tara(42) ≒ Ando(43)

    Tara & Caro all are much better skaters than Ando, and are real WC materials.

  18. #98
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    I voted for Maria Butyrskaya but I wish I could take that back. I'd vote for Tara and Miki.

    Tara Lipinski was definitely a flash-in-the-pan kind of skater. She rose to the top in two seasons and then left which means it's tough to compare her to skaters on this list who stayed competitive for 4 years or 7 years or 10 years. We had the chance to watch every other skater on the list mature and (attempt to) grow. Tara matured a bit during her short run but not nearly enough to be considered a mature skater; she was a 15 year old energetic jumping-bean when she won. Right after that, she went pro. Most of Tara's growth as a skater happened during her pro career. Think about it: she won all of her titles and exited amateur skating before she even hit puberty.

    I don't think she was a complete enough skater to be included in this poll b/c we never got the chance to really see what she could do as a mature skater on the eligible level b/c she was gone before it could happen. I admire her competitiveness and her 3l-3l combo, but that's all I remember about her skating. So Tara gets my vote.

    But my overall vote is for Miki Ando. I think she stands out when you evaluate in terms of technical content. Also she's pretty decent at focusing and skating well when she needs to. Like Tara, Miki's key points are her jumps and competitiveness; unlike Tara, however, Miki has had several years to develop artistically and though she tries, it still comes up short.

    Miki is the definition of a darkhorse competitor. She's a middle-of-the-pack skater with solid jumps who has a coach who knows how to work the judging system. She uses that to her advantage and has been able to capitalize on others mistakes and win titles. Her resume is more impressive than many of the other ladies on the list, but I'm judging it by overall qualities of the skater; not just titles. That's why I vote for Miki.
    Last edited by kwanatic; 06-06-2012 at 05:52 PM.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    How can Miki be the weakest? She is a two time world champion, who landed all the difficult jumps except the 3A. Miki won in strong fields. Carolina won in the weakest field.
    LOL. Really, Miki's skating can't be compared to Carolina's.
    I think we all don't understand the poll the same way. Miki's skating is not great. She is just a jumper, and even her jumps are not the best technique. She has nothing else.
    Carolina landed difficult combos with better technique, and far far far better skating skills. So, for me, the weakest is clearly Miki.
    But anyway, my point of view is not objective, I'm a hater

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Hmm....

    Maria's results at worlds consecitively were 4th, 5th, 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 4th. Yet you're all slagging her off as super inconsistent and never a gold medal contender.

    Yet shiz's results were 8th, 1st, 9th but she's considered one of the strongest ladies on the poll.
    Arakawa won both Worlds and Olympics though. If Maria had won the Olympics to go with her World title, nobody would say much about her either at this point, but she didnt even medal at an Olympics. Anyway when Shizuka was really on, which was rare, she was unbeatable. When Maria was on she was still very beatable.

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