View Poll Results: Who is the weakest link among these past ladies champions?

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  • Lu Chen

    9 3.61%
  • Michelle Kwan

    3 1.20%
  • Tara Lipinski

    47 18.88%
  • Maria Butyrskaya

    43 17.27%
  • Irina Slutskaya

    3 1.20%
  • Shizuka Arakawa

    9 3.61%
  • Miki Ando

    62 24.90%
  • Mao Asada

    8 3.21%
  • Yuna Kim

    4 1.61%
  • Carolina Kostner

    61 24.50%
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  1. #41
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    Kostner needs to go.. One season does not undo multiple years of messes..

  2. #42
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    People vote with the criterium they think is most convinient. There's not a guide or manual instructions of rules of how to vote

    If we are going by resume Lipinski is on par with Shizuka Arakawa or Yuna Kim but, for me, she's not in the same league of these skaters. The way I go, is who I would want to watch her performances over and over again. Tara is not at the top of the list at the moment and I'm far from being a Kwan fan

  3. #43
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    Many people are voting based on their personal favorites and that's fine. In fact it's the ONLY way to explain how Lipinski is possibly leading this poll with so many other (appropriate) choices.

    I'm looking at resume first, personal taste second. Both factor in (not gonna lie) but point 1 trumps point 2.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    Many people are voting based on their personal favorites and that's fine. In fact it's the ONLY way to explain how Lipinski is possibly leading this poll with so many other (appropriate) choices.

    I'm looking at resume first, personal taste second. Both factor in (not gonna lie) but point 1 trumps point 2.

    It's not the ONLY way. People vote for their favourites or their least favorites, in this case. It's an elimination game, too. You have to vote for sb
    For me, performance, skating skills, jumps, performance ability etc. trump resumé. If we are going by cv award the title to Kwan already. There's no other skater as condecorated as her
    From this list, IMO, Tara had the weakest jumping technique and skating skills. I don't take well that someone says I am voting for Tara because she was Kwan's main rival. I dunno if it was you, but anyway, I had to say it

    I knnow it's only a game, sorry to take it that seriously folks
    Last edited by robinhood; 06-03-2012 at 10:47 PM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    Kostner is pretty consistent in that I've never seen her skate a long program full out and land every jump that she had planned cleanly-- and she's been senior for nearly 10 years. That, to me, does not signify someone who would do well in a survival of the fittest type challenge.
    Which, of course, this isn't. Nor is the actual television show Survivor, when we get down to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    If you take out the last two years from Kostner's career, calling her more consistent than Tara is laughable. Carolina had so many truly meltdown performances over the years that it was doubtful she would ever win a world championship. Finally after the top skaters were a no-show she was able to put together some wins. She improve her overall skating in the process, and without the difficult jumps her jumps consistency also improved.

    I give her credit for her persistence, but Tara performed consistently well even when she lost a competition, and was beaten by superior skaters like Kwan. The most important thing is Tara delivered when it counted, at USN 97, worlds 97, and the 98 Olympics. Her only bad performance came in at the 96 worlds SP, and she fought back with a great LP, with a 3S3R combination in it.

    You cannot really compare a skater whose career spanned 3 seasons and one whose career spanned 8-10(?) years, by looking at one season that you cherry picked.
    Oh, absolutely, I agree. But then is it fair to vote for someone has this blazingly consistent skater when really, we're talking about a two season stretch? Is that the kind of consistency we crave in our ladies? A blazing fire for a year or two surrounded by nothing?

    I mentioned how I was voting earlier, but basically, I'd rewatch a half dozen of Kostner's programs before any of Lipinski's.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by orientalplane View Post
    I don't think Lipinski would have as many votes had she not beaten Michelle at the Olympics.
    This.

    I voted for Caro.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  7. #47
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    I think Lipinski is getting more votes here than before because

    1 Meissner and Hughes were the obvious first two picks in that order

    2 Her eligible career was very short

    3 Her professional career wasn't anything special (not all her fault, but it wasn't)

    4 the big one : Changing standards have meant her skating doesn't hold up so well for current tastes. She deserved her wins as an eligible under the rules at the time and I enjoyed her skating well enough , but the tiny jumps, roller axel, flutz, mule kick* and possible URs (the gravest of all sins apparently) mean that she doesn't look as impressive to modern eyes as she did at the time to judges who weren't looking so much at that stuff except the flutz which she was making improvement on.

    *I don't remember her having one but I never really noticed that as technique until Hughes so I might not have been aware of it, another example of how changing standards change knowledgeable viewers' perceptions....

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    I think Lipinski is getting more votes here than before because

    1 Meissner and Hughes were the obvious first two picks in that order

    2 Her eligible career was very short

    3 Her professional career wasn't anything special (not all her fault, but it wasn't)

    4 the big one : Changing standards have meant her skating doesn't hold up so well for current tastes. She deserved her wins as an eligible under the rules at the time and I enjoyed her skating well enough , but the tiny jumps, roller axel, flutz, mule kick* and possible URs (the gravest of all sins apparently) mean that she doesn't look as impressive to modern eyes as she did at the time to judges who weren't looking so much at that stuff except the flutz which she was making improvement on.

    *I don't remember her having one but I never really noticed that as technique until Hughes so I might not have been aware of it, another example of how changing standards change knowledgeable viewers' perceptions....
    She did not really have a mule kick like Caroline Zhang's. About the flutz and UR, it was nowhere as blatant as Sarah Hughes', and under the 6.0 no one was being penalized for them, so there was no real incentive for skaters to fix small amounts of flutzes and small URs.

    I do believe she is getting so many votes here is because 1) she beat Michelle at the 98 Olympics, and 2) her career was short. Still, she does not deserve to get more votes than Kostner and Butyrskaya who had long careers but just one world title.

  9. #49

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    the comp is not about long vs short career, it is about great skate, if it is a skating comp. So what is the wow factor of a skater vs the wow factor of the other
    I could re-watch the most of Carolinas skates before Taras. Carolinas skating skills are really by far the best. Her jumps are really great and her ice coverage are impressive. She really express herself on the ice. That are wow factors why I think Carolina should survive
    Taras wow factor is her joy, but on the other side, her jumps are thin, the skating skills average ...

  10. #50

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    It's interesting that the three non-Kwan Americans (Meissner, Hughes, Lipinski) are getting the boot first, one after the other. This is more than a coincidence, esp. when they have 2 of the only three OGMs on this poll. Black Marke of Kwan?
    Last edited by FunnyBut; 06-04-2012 at 12:32 PM.

  11. #51
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    I'm surprised Carolina Kostner is about to leave the game. She has nothing weak in her skating. She is probably one of the best of the list.

    Anyway, all of those ladies are very good skaters, so I guess we need to vote for someone !

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyBut View Post
    It's interesting that the three non-Kwan Americans (Meissner, Hughes, Lipinski) are getting the boot first, one after the other. This is more than a coincidence, esp. when they have 2 of the only three OGMs on this poll. Black Marke of Kwan?

    But Caro's in the lead now! Oh wait, is. It becuaseshe "wuz robbed" Kwan of bronze in Moscow? Is that why Maria has lots of votes too? But wait, shiz "wuz robbed" Kwan in Dortmund, and. Shehaslike no votes. Oh, this is getting all muddled. We need Esta to explain how illogical conspiracy theories work. I know booze and cigarettes fit in somewhere!

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post

    *I don't remember her having one but I never really noticed that as technique until Hughes so I might not have been aware of it, another example of how changing standards change knowledgeable viewers' perceptions....
    Dick button was always yammering on about it. He loved Tara,but you know how he is. Pick pick pick

  14. #54
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    Maria was the most inconsistent of them all..

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    I'm surprised Carolina Kostner is about to leave the game. She has nothing weak in her skating. She is probably one of the best of the list.

    Anyway, all of those ladies are very good skaters, so I guess we need to vote for someone !
    What about her competitive mindset or consistency? Carolina has never skated a truly clean lp throughout her entire career (closest was 2003 Euros) and that includes this season and last when she took out the lutz and 3/3s. She turned me into a fan this year and last with her improved choreography, but I can't ignore her lack of mental toughness and competitive fire when it comes to this poll.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    She turned me into a fan this year and last with her improved choreography, but I can't ignore her lack of mental toughness and competitive fire when it comes to this poll.
    I can understand your point with mental toughness as Carolina has had major meltdowns at three very important competitions and several sup-bar LPs after skating amazingly well in the SP. Still, she has also shown she can stay mentally strong at various competitions, especially (but not only) last season.

    Lack of competitive fire is something I would not use to describe Carolina with. No one with a lack of competitive fire would ever continue competing after such major meltdowns and disastrous outings, yet even win a world title. IMO, she has shown incredible competitive fire just by continuing to compete after what happened in Vancouver.

  17. #57

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    IIRC, the issue was "who's the weakest", not why one may be the weakest. Tara's hip problems may be seen as being as much of a "weakness" as Kostner's inconsistency (or any other problem that plagued any other skater). You take your pick.

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    IIRC, the issue was "who's the weakest", not why one may be the weakest. Tara's hip problems may be seen as being as much of a "weakness" as Kostner's inconsistency (or any other problem that plagued any other skater). You take your pick.
    How can any injury be considered a weakness? Every athlete is susceptible to an injury. Why should Tara's hip injury be held against her when even Yagudin had a career ending hip injury too? Abt had numerous injuries which kept him from getting ahead in his career. Even Carolina struggled with a knee injury and had to leave out the lutz and flip from her programs.

    To me, Tara appears highly competitive and mentally tough, not to mention a very consistent jumper.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    What about her competitive mindset or consistency? Carolina has never skated a truly clean lp throughout her entire career (closest was 2003 Euros) and that includes this season and last when she took out the lutz and 3/3s. She turned me into a fan this year and last with her improved choreography, but I can't ignore her lack of mental toughness and competitive fire when it comes to this poll.
    I'm talking about her skating. I mean, what she can do as a skater. I guess we all interpret the title differently, with our own preferencies. But for me, it's more about skating abilities, than about what they actually did consistently on the ice.

  20. #60
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    I guess I'll be voting for Ando for the next several weeks.

    I find her best skates less enjoyable than those of anyone else on the list. I also think she's lucky even to be here at all. The two times she won Worlds, she came up against Kim and Asada at less than their best, and her performance in the only segment that she won (the FS in 2011) was sloppy. Having said that, I have to admit that if she somehow manages to win Worlds again or the Olympics in 2014, I would have to rank her quite a bit higher.

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