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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by carriecmu0503 View Post
    It's easy to look up of you have access to the Internet. While it is often taken for granted in N. America and much of western Europe, it CANNOT be assumed that people in Ukraine and other eastern European countries have that access. Also, the information may not be available in Russian.
    Don't try and pull this excuse out.

    My state association is tiny. So tiny we have no clubs. ISA isn't exactly a major force in the figure skating world. Our rink is a pathetic shambles.

    And yet on the noticeboard are copies of the drugs policy. The committee keeps a copy of the list and makes it available to anyone who needs it. A skater can go to the committee or to the ISA to find out. You don't even need the internet if you don't have it.

    If our little association can do it, I can imagine a national skating federation like Ukraine would be MORE than capable.

    You're trying to excuse the inexcusable.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by carriecmu0503 View Post
    It's easy to look up of you have access to the Internet. While it is often taken for granted in N. America and much of western Europe, it CANNOT be assumed that people in Ukraine and other eastern European countries have that access. Also, the information may not be available in Russian.
    I see skaters from those countries all over FaceBook and Twitter. And that information is available everywhere in every format. WADA doesn't want to be tricking athletes into failing tests. They want to stop cheating. They don't HIDE the information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swurvestar1 View Post
    When I competed, I was always concerned about drug tests and took them very seriously, and I was nowhere near her level and was quite a bit younger than her as well.
    I agree. I'm a recreational triathlete, never even been on a podium, but we have random drug testing so when I have a cold or other medical issue, I always look up every drug I'm thinking of taking on the WADA list.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  3. #43
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    Diuretics

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogie View Post
    Does anyone know the types of drugs that furosemide masks?
    ALL.

    Diuretics would cause increased water to be excreted by the kidneys, which will cause diluted urine, lowering the concentration of any and all drugs excreted into the system, including metabolites of drugs of abuse, HGH and steroids.

    There is a danger to anyone who abuses furosemide because it also causes the kidneys to excrete potassium along with the excess water. Low potassium levels are a danger to cardiac function and muscle function for anyone, even a well trained athlete.
    Last edited by PairSk8Fan; 06-04-2012 at 05:33 PM. Reason: typo

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Pardon me, genevieve, but as someone who has always respected your point of view here on FSU, I have to ask, are you serious? Do you not see how condescending your own question is?
    1. Yes
    2. I am challenging your colonial lens. This is different than condescending to entire cultures about their silly expectation that people respect the actual name of their country.

    I do agree with Gil-Gilaad about Ivory Coast vs. Cote d'Ivoire, because it is a direct translation, but the Burma/Myanmar thing just smacks of Western presumption. I'm sure there are people who find it really inconvenient to learn the name Zimbabwe instead of Rhodesia as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    The name of the country hasn't been changed. It's always been "Myanmar" in Myanmarese. Just like Bombay has always been "Mumbai" and Calcutta has always been "Kolkata".

    Those who persist in using "Burma" can tell themselves they are taking some kind of a noble stance, but what they are actually doing is reinforcing the type of colonialism that went around the world changing the names of countries to suit the language they spoke.
    ^^ this
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  5. #45
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    So, fred, should we (including you) in the future refer to your country simply as Eire, since Ireland is an English translation/corruption of its true name and therefore colonial-sighted and condescending of those who use it?
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by VALuvsMKwan View Post
    So, fred, should we (including you) in the future refer to your country simply as Eire, since Ireland is an English translation/corruption of its true name and therefore colonial-sighted and condescending of those who use it?
    Ireland is the name we have chosen to keep for ourselves as our official name in English. It derives from the Irish name for this island that was in use before the British colonised us. But if we choose to change our name to say "Magic Fairyland" in the future, I would expect that other countries would respect us by using that name and not keeping to Ireland because they can't be bothered.

    Does that make it clear or do you want to score some more points for the sake of it? Because I have no problems with destroying your arguments and showing you up.

    And by the way, you can use Eire (or even Eireann) if you want as that is Ireland's official name as Gaeilge (in Irish). We're flexible like that.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    Ireland is the name we have chosen to keep for ourselves as our official name in English. It derives from the Irish name for this island that was in use before the British colonised us. But if we choose to change our name to say "Magic Fairyland" in the future, I would expect that other countries would respect us by using that name and not keeping to Ireland because they can't be bothered.

    Does that make it clear or do you want to score some more points for the sake of it? Because I have no problems with destroying your arguments and showing you up.

    And by the way, you can use Eire (or even Eireann) if you want as that is Ireland's official name as Gaeilge (in Irish). We're flexible like that.
    Oh, please, can you start lobbying for change of the name to "Magic Fairyland"? I will be happily using it! (time to start using some imagination when creating names of countries).

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Oh, please, can you start lobbying for change of the name to "Magic Fairyland"? I will be happily using it! (time to start using some imagination when creating names of countries).
    I vote for Leprechaunia!

  9. #49
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    I'm curious to know what drugs might have furosemide in them. Furosemide is a pretty strong and potentially dangerous diuretic, why would it be in other meds?

    Quote Originally Posted by vexlak View Post
    Agreed that she should have known. However this is not cycling competition where they take it to enhance endurance. She may have tried to lose weight the stupid way and some MD may have helped...
    I am opposing any doping however I still see it as a harsh punishment for a first time offender.
    I think they need to evaluate some of the restrictions. Just like Albuterol for asthma. It is banned, but if you provide doctor documentation (every year) that you do have asthma, you can use it.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    2. I am challenging your colonial lens. This is different than condescending to entire cultures about their silly expectation that people respect the actual name of their country.

    I do agree with Gil-Gilaad about Ivory Coast vs. Cote d'Ivoire, because it is a direct translation, but the Burma/Myanmar thing just smacks of Western presumption.
    Okay, if, in your view Aung San Suu Kyi is a presumptuous, ignorant, Western colonialist asshole, I can understand that. I respectfully disagree, though.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    I vote for Leprechaunia!


    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Okay, if, in your view Aung San Suu Kyi is a presumptuous, ignorant, Western colonialist asshole, I can understand that. I respectfully disagree, though.
    She just wants to avoid using the name that the current regime uses.

  12. #52
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    Question about drug tests and doping (I know nothing about this): how exactly do these tests work (I know it's a pee-in-cup thing)? Do athletes get tested at every event? Are there ever exemptions granted for certain medications (i.e. if you report in advance that you are on a long-term thing or something? I don't know) or is any indication of any substance a problem?

    Just curious. No idea how any of this goes.

  13. #53
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    ISU Anti-Doping Policy & related info/links: http://www.sportcentric.com/vsite/vn...v-list,00.html
    (refer to pp. 11-12 of ISU Communication No. 1651 for how/how many figure skaters are selected for post-competition testing)

    ISU Forms: http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/pa...v-list,00.html

    U.S. Anti-Doping (USADA) Testing info page: http://www.usantidoping.org/tdp/
    Last edited by Sylvia; 06-05-2012 at 10:34 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by carriecmu0503 View Post
    It's easy to look up of you have access to the Internet. While it is often taken for granted in N. America and much of western Europe, it CANNOT be assumed that people in Ukraine and other eastern European countries have that access. Also, the information may not be available in Russian.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    Question about drug tests and doping (I know nothing about this): how exactly do these tests work (I know it's a pee-in-cup thing)? Do athletes get tested at every event? Are there ever exemptions granted for certain medications (i.e. if you report in advance that you are on a long-term thing or something? I don't know) or is any indication of any substance a problem?

    Just curious. No idea how any of this goes.
    Sometimes the tests are a pee in the cup, other times they draw blood. Most of my knowledge comes from cycling, and at the Tour de France, for example, top stage finishers and GC finishers are tested at each stage, and a certain number of random tests from the other riders as well. Plus before the race, pretty much everyone is tested. During the offseason, and out of competition, there can be random tests at any time, and three missed tests count as a positive test.

    WADA is also entitled to "target" riders, so if there is a rider who they suspect for some reason, they'll be tested much more frequently. Cyclists do a blood passport where they track values over time, and if something looks suspicious, they'll typically target that rider.

    I believe the rules are similar for skaters, but there tends to be many fewer random tests since it is generally considered a lower risk sport. But endurance isn't the only benefit from prohibited substances. Certain drugs like clenbuterol can also help develop lean muscle.
    "The Devil is joining in, and that's never a good sign." Phil Liggett

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    Question about drug tests and doping (I know nothing about this): how exactly do these tests work (I know it's a pee-in-cup thing)? Do athletes get tested at every event? Are there ever exemptions granted for certain medications (i.e. if you report in advance that you are on a long-term thing or something? I don't know) or is any indication of any substance a problem?

    Just curious. No idea how any of this goes.
    Basically, they randomly draw a skater to test (not sure at how many events that happens but they are randomly picked, I think) and then that skater has to pee in a cup with somebody watching them.

    At high level events (Worlds, Olympics, etc.) the whole podium gets tested plus a randomly picked skater IIRC.

    And at Olympics, they do blood tests too I think.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by PairSk8Fan View Post
    ALL.

    Diuretics would cause increased water to be excreted by the kidneys, which will cause diluted urine, lowering the concentration of any and all drugs excreted into the system, including metabolites of drugs of abuse, HGH and steroids.

    There is a danger to anyone who abuses furosemide because it also causes the kidneys to excrete potassium along with the excess water. Low potassium levels are a danger to cardiac function and muscle function for anyone, even a well trained athlete.
    When I was a college student, 21 or 22, I was given a diuretic to treat migraine headaches and high blood pressure. You have to be monitored to make sure you aren't overmedicated. The side effects I had were a day of miserable dehydration, and I turned completely flushed red. But it did lower my bp. And eventually the headaches stopped. Not that this is a reason for the skater to be taking this medication, but there are legit reasons. I hope it wasn't masking something that will harm her down the line. Haven't they learned anything from all those East German girls given substances that left them with shortened life expectancy. It's just not worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Basically, they randomly draw a skater to test (not sure at how many events that happens but they are randomly picked, I think) and then that skater has to pee in a cup with somebody watching them.
    They test the first place athlete(s) and then a random one. Sometimes, if the first place is a team, (sticking with skating here) only one of the pair/dance team has to be tested.

    That is at National/International competitions. In season, which is pretty much all year for skaters, the athletes have to fill out USADA questionnaires 3 times a year. Listing any meds and/or supplements they take. They have to provide doctor verification for restricted drugs (like Albuterol). That verification is not just a doctor's note, it also has to have lab/function test work to prove need. Still, there are banned drugs that cannot be take even with doctor verification. They also have to provide a loose schedule - where training, where living, etc. They can be randomly tested any time, without warning, in season. A knock on the door at home, or you get handed a cup at the training rink, and you get tested. There are also foods that need to be avoided, poppy seed muffins/rolls can test positive for opiates. Too much coffee, cola, caffeine is also a problem. They also test for blood doping, though I am not sure if that shows up in a urine test.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    Ireland is the name we have chosen to keep for ourselves as our official name in English. It derives from the Irish name for this island that was in use before the British colonised us. But if we choose to change our name to say "Magic Fairyland" in the future, I would expect that other countries would respect us by using that name and not keeping to Ireland because they can't be bothered.

    Does that make it clear or do you want to score some more points for the sake of it? Because I have no problems with destroying your arguments and showing you up.

    And by the way, you can use Eire (or even Eireann) if you want as that is Ireland's official name as Gaeilge (in Irish). We're flexible like that.
    The Family Doctor I had for most of my life (He was in the OR when I was born, so that's how long I've known him) and my Parents had until last year when he retired was from the same area the Kennedys came from. Whenever I asked him what Ireland was like, he always said it was a magic place where the Faeries would pop up where you least expected it.

    So "Magic Fairyland" works for me!!

    As for this young ice dancer from Ukraine...As everyone's said, the list of banned drugs/substances are well known and easy to find. She should have known better.

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    It isn't skating, but here is an interesting article about the drug testing process: http://espn.go.com/espnw/blog/post/349/know-clean

    And if this ice dancer really didn't know she was taking the substance- here is an article from an athlete that claims the same fate: http://espn.go.com/espnw/athletes-li...ter-not-bitter

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