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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by triple_toe View Post
    Not to be pedantic, but it's Ukraine, not The Ukraine. "The Ukraine" is considered offensive to some Ukrainians because it implies colonialism to Russia. Ukrainians are often very independent-minded so that's a hot button issue.
    Please, don't forget that not everyone's first language is English. In my native language we don't have articles. No 'a', 'an' or 'the'; none at all. I am not sure what country the poster who wrote 'the Ukraine' is, but from my experience I can say that people whose first language don't use any articles can have problems not knowing when to use them. They tend to not to use them when the article clearly should be in, or compensate and use them far too much (put it somewhere where it shouldn't be). I am sure the writer did not want to be offensive.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    That's a 17-month ban, though in effect it's the same thing as she is out for the season. But if she's looking for a new partner, she's likely out for the season anyway.
    Which also means if she switched countries she would have sat out anyway.

  3. #23
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    She may have a lot more to fear than just a 17 month ban.
    WADA Code To Ban Cheats From Games

    However, at the time of its ruling, CAS indicated that Rule 45 could be reintroduced if it was included as part of the WADA code.

    A new clause in the draft code - 10.15, Limitation on Participation in the Olympic Games - declares that in serious doping cases "as an additional sanction, the athlete or other person shall be ineligible to participate in the next Summer Olympic Games and the next Winter Olympic Games taking place after the end of the period of ineligibility otherwise imposed."

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    She may have a lot more to fear than just a 17 month ban.
    WADA Code To Ban Cheats From Games
    Not really:
    The new code is due to be approved in autumn 2013 and would come into force in 2015 in time for Rio 2016, making London 2012 the one Games at which the Merritt ruling may serve as a charter for serious cheats to return to the Olympic arena.
    Even if this were an issue for 2018, the events as described in the ISU communication do not strike me as a "serious doping case" (that's pretty vague language; I am sure they will have to be more specific). This is why I don't like language like "drug cheats"; Galyeta made a stupid decision, and she'll be disciplined for it, but she didn't engage in any cheating.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by vexlak View Post
    Agreed that she should have known. However this is not cycling competition where they take it to enhance endurance. She may have tried to lose weight the stupid way and some MD may have helped...
    I am opposing any doping however I still see it as a harsh punishment for a first time offender.
    The only way to curb doping is to be extremely strict IMHO. There should no doubt that it is a bad idea to take banned substances.

  6. #26
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    18 months is too much, I hope it gets reduced too

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by triple_toe View Post
    Not to be pedantic, but it's Ukraine, not The Ukraine. "The Ukraine" is considered offensive to some Ukrainians because it implies colonialism to Russia. Ukrainians are often very independent-minded so that's a hot button issue.
    Not to be pedantic, but although Eislauffan speaks English fluently, it isn't her first language.

    It's also highly presumptuous of countries whose official language isn't English to tell English-speakers what name to give them in English. Myanmar and Côte d'Ivoire can call themselves Myanmar and Côte d'Ivoire as much as they please, but some people are still going to call them Burma and Ivory Coast.

    Deal with it.


  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Not to be pedantic, but although Eislauffan speaks English fluently, it isn't her first language.

    It's also highly presumptuous of countries whose official language isn't English to tell English-speakers what name to give them in English. Myanmar and Côte d'Ivoire can call themselves Myanmar and Côte d'Ivoire as much as they please, but some people are still going to call them Burma and Ivory Coast.

    Deal with it.

    I don't need to deal with it, it wasn't me who wrote 'the Ukraine'.
    I am just trying to explain the the writer very likely did not mean any offence - it's the grammar that might be causing difficulties.

    English might not be the native language for Eislauffan, but I think (from the user name) that her first language is German and there are articles in German language, so it would be natural for her to use them in English. However, the use of the articles in her language might be different than the use of the articles in English so it can be difficult even for her to use them. (Originally I was speaking about people who don't have any articles at all in their language. For us it can be quite hit and miss when we are trying to use them. (sometimes more and sometimes less successfully).

    triple_toe, I do wonder how many languages you speak if you are so critical to grammar mistakes of other people speaking by their non native language.
    Last edited by hanca; 06-03-2012 at 09:59 PM.

  9. #29

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    I always thought it was highly presumptuous to decide that you should call a country or a people something other than what they request to be called just because it's hard for you to say the name of the country.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond;3584393[B
    ]It's also highly presumptuous of countries whose official language isn't English to tell English-speakers what name to give them in English. [/B]Myanmar and Côte d'Ivoire can call themselves Myanmar and Côte d'Ivoire as much as they please, but some people are still going to call them Burma and Ivory Coast.
    Pretty much only ignorant assholes will.

    Do you honestly not see how condescending your stance is? Or are you just pulling our collective leg?
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  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    Pretty much only ignorant assholes will.
    While I believe in being respectful towards others, I highly doubt that everyone who calls Côte d'Ivoire "Ivory Coast" is automatically an "ignorant [...]". Especially considering the fact that Ivory Coast is the direct translation.

    On the other hand I don't think it's "highly presumptuous" of countries to pleasantly ask others to respect their national identity by adjusting the terminology a bit.

    I think a little mutual tolerance and flexibility might be a good idea here.

    (Maybe Germany should start protesting against all those different names we've got in the world. Especially since both "Germany" and the French / Spanish "Allemagne" are kind of historically incorrect. The name Germany indicates that we are the descendants of the Germanic tribes, which is only partly correct, since we have also lots of Celtic ancestors, as well as Roman and Slavic ones. And I know quite a few Germans, who feel uncomfortable with the name Germany, since Hitler played up the whole Germanic heritage angle. Plus, it's highly unoriginal, Julius Caesar used it in his writings and suddenly everyone was calling the region / people "German / Germanic". Allemagne / Alemania is quite interesting as a name, Alemanni was a union of several southern Germanic tribes between 300 and 599 A.D.. The Franks conquered "Alemanni" in 496, and funnily enough, the name somehow stuck. Oh, and the Finnish and Estonian people call us Saxons. The best name we have in the slavic countries though, they all use variations of the protoslavic němъ, which means mute / dumb - only because back in the day they couldn't understand the Germanic tribes. I mean, what's fair about that?)

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Taking medications without clearing it with anyone official is a really stupid mistake to make. Since when are pharmacists up to date regarding the list of banned substances?
    There's at least one iPhone app and that lists all the substances banned by WADA or you can just go to their website and look things up. It's not really that hard to be up on what is and isn't banned.

    The hard part is knowing what is in substances that don't clearly list their ingredient. But most of the time those kinds of substances are not things you really have to be taking as they tend to be home remedies and nutritional supplements. Any medicines will list their active ingredients and you can just look them up on the WADA list and know if you can take them or not.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    There's at least one iPhone app and that lists all the substances banned by WADA or you can just go to their website and look things up. It's not really that hard to be up on what is and isn't banned.

    The hard part is knowing what is in substances that don't clearly list their ingredient. But most of the time those kinds of substances are not things you really have to be taking as they tend to be home remedies and nutritional supplements. Any medicines will list their active ingredients and you can just look them up on the WADA list and know if you can take them or not.
    It's easy to look up of you have access to the Internet. While it is often taken for granted in N. America and much of western Europe, it CANNOT be assumed that people in Ukraine and other eastern European countries have that access. Also, the information may not be available in Russian.

  14. #34

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    Seriously guys? I'm not being snotty, I'm simply pointing out that "The Ukraine" is considered offensive to many Ukrainians. It's an outdated term that comes off as disrespectful today. I didn't think anyone was using the term maliciously here but knowing that the term is incorrect could prevent an awkward situation in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    Pretty much only ignorant assholes will.

    Do you honestly not see how condescending your stance is? Or are you just pulling our collective leg?
    Pardon me, genevieve, but as someone who has always respected your point of view here on FSU, I have to ask, are you serious? Do you not see how condescending your own question is?

    Not every person in the English-speaking world -- not even every college graduate -- is well versed in the world geography, let alone official name changes. That doesn't necessarily make those who don't know any better "ignorant assholes."

    With respect to Myanmar, many people, notably Aung San Suu Kyi, prefer to use the old name, Burma, because they do not recognize the legitimacy of the regime that changed the name of the country.

    With respect to Côte d'Ivoire, Gil-Galad summed up everything I would say.

    With respect to Ukraine, people who were adults at the time the Soviet Union split apart grew up referring to "the Ukraine," not "Ukraine." The fact that they never "got with the program" and dropped the definite article doesn't make them ignorant assholes. Chances are, at some point, the article will drop from general use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gil-Galad View Post
    On the other hand I don't think it's "highly presumptuous" of countries to pleasantly ask others to respect their national identity by adjusting the terminology a bit.
    If that's what they're doing. That's not always the case, particularly when its citizens take offense at something about which most native speakers of English have little knowledge.
    Last edited by Vagabond; 06-04-2012 at 05:14 AM.

  16. #36

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    Since, as you say, there is apparently "little knowledge" of it, I'm just trying to increase awareness

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by triple_toe View Post
    Seriously guys? I'm not being snotty, I'm simply pointing out that "The Ukraine" is considered offensive to many Ukrainians. It's an outdated term that comes off as disrespectful today. I didn't think anyone was using the term maliciously here but knowing that the term is incorrect could prevent an awkward situation in the future.
    I'm happy you've pointed this out, as I had no idea that "The Ukraine" was incorrect. So now I know.

    (Although I'll admit never knowing WHY it was "The" Ukraine in the first place. Why not "The Belarus," "The Latvia," "The Turkmenistan?" And don't get me started on "The Bronx." )
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  18. #38
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    I agree that it was really a stupid mistake for her to make, but she must suffer the consequences.

    When I competed, I was always concerned about drug tests and took them very seriously, and I was nowhere near her level and was quite a bit younger than her as well.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post

    With respect to Myanmar, many people, notably Aung San Suu Kyi, prefer to use the old name, Burma, because they do not recognize the legitimacy of the regime that changed the name of the country.
    The name of the country hasn't been changed. It's always been "Myanmar" in Myanmarese. Just like Bombay has always been "Mumbai" and Calcutta has always been "Kolkata".

    Those who persist in using "Burma" can tell themselves they are taking some kind of a noble stance, but what they are actually doing is reinforcing the type of colonialism that went around the world changing the names of countries to suit the language they spoke.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by carriecmu0503 View Post
    Also, the information may not be available in Russian.
    Her federation should be responsible for making sure the athletes have the drug restriction information available. Russian speaking countries are not new to sports- surely this information has got to be available to them, and not just figure skaters but ALL the athletes.

    There are no excuses for athletes taking banned substances anymore. Doping control is not a new thing. Every elite athlete is aware of the restrictions and has to deal with this.

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