National Testing Requirements around the World

[essence_of_soy]

Require an additional credential, beyond passing tests and winning a national medal in a limited field, for skaters to earn those assignments.

Good thinking.

But using one of the national championships held in late 2011 as an example, of the three women selected for Four Continents in 2012, only two had competitive double axels, and one had an iffy competitive triple.

[gkelly]

Good thinking.

But using one of the national championships held in late 2011 as an example, of the three women selected for Four Continents in 2012, only two had competitive double axels, and one had an iffy competitive triple.

So the federation could say we don't have anyone worthy of senior international assignments -- if you're too old for juniors, go work on those jumps, maybe we'll send you next year.

Or sending them could be a worthwhile investment as a wakeup call for those skaters' own competitive careers, as a chance for current Australian officials to get championship level experience, and as an opportunity for these skaters to see what the standards are in case they want to become officials or coaches themselves.

But saying we're not even going to give you a senior test or let you compete at the national championships, even if that means years go by with no senior ladies in Australia, is not going to encourage kids to keep skating.

[essence_of_soy]

By sending a skater to an international event, wouldn't it be a short term focus with a view to competing and being event - ready. The long term focus with a view to coaching is part of the bigger picture, that the skater can impart to others later.

Otherwise, send the skater to observe the event or download the competition, have the skaters watch it and say, this is the standard we expect you to meet.

Maybe the budget for sending skaters to competitions could be used sending promising skaters (lacking the technical content but with that potential) to jump specialists like Kathy Casey or Christy Kraal instead of sending them to events where they don't have that content.

Anyway, it's all hypothetical stuff. It takes years to create champions, and if China and South Korea can do it, perhaps they are the models to use as examples.

[gingercat]

By sending a skater to an international event, wouldn't it be a short term focus with a view to competing and being event - ready. The long term focus with a view to coaching is part of the bigger picture, that the skater can impart to others later.

Otherwise, send the skater to observe the event or download the competition, have the skaters watch it and say, this is the standard we expect you to meet.

Maybe the budget for sending skaters to competitions could be used sending promising skaters (lacking the technical content but with that potential) to jump specialists like Kathy Casey or Christy Kraal instead of sending them to events where they don't have that content.

Anyway, it's all hypothetical stuff. It takes years to create champions, and if China and South Korea can do it, perhaps they are the models to use as examples.

Great idea! Money spent better to learn required skills, that in itself is an invaluable experience. There are plenty of B events Novice and up to gain international experience.

[Aussie Willy]

But reigning it in, my main concern is smaller associations that have set the senior test requirements to preclude any triple jumps (and the double axel required for the short program), and subsequently sending skaters without these jumps (actually landed in competition) to international championships.

Let me throw out a novel concept. Maybe the skaters can judge for themself whether they have the necessary elements to make them competitive overseas. If they don't but they still want to go overseas to compete at international events, then I don't see what is the problem.

You know, sometimes it isn't about having the necessary jumps but just getting out there, giving it a go and getting some experience. Our skaters are pretty realistic about their abilities, but they do have personal goals they want to reach. And most of the time they end up paying for themselves so they are shelling out their own pockets to make the trip.

When it comes to test levels in Australia, there has probably been a lot of discussion over the Senior ladies test. Maybe the requirement for a triple jump does not help us as a country get skaters to that level. Also achieving a test level is only a starting point for the skater being at that level. Many skaters may make it through having achieved the criteria but that is where the work then begins to make them competitive at that level.

[essence_of_soy]

Let me throw out a novel concept. Maybe the skaters can judge for themself whether they have the necessary elements to make them competitive overseas. If they don't but they still want to go overseas to compete at international events, then I don't see what is the problem.

You know, sometimes it isn't about having the necessary jumps but just getting out there, giving it a go and getting some experience. Our skaters are pretty realistic about their abilities, but they do have personal goals they want to reach. And most of the time they end up paying for themselves so they are shelling out their own pockets to make the trip.

When it comes to test levels in Australia, there has probably been a lot of discussion over the Senior ladies test. Maybe the requirement for a triple jump does not help us as a country get skaters to that level. Also achieving a test level is only a starting point for the skater being at that level. Many skaters may make it through having achieved the criteria but that is where the work then begins to make them competitive at that level.

I guess this is why this topic is going around in circles.

Is it about an association's responsibility to create serious competitive skaters or sending unprepared athletes overseas (without the necessary minimum jumping skills) simply to have them come last?

(Since the athletes are paying their own way, if they are serious about the sport, my earlier suggestion was for them to use their money going overseas for the necessary jump skills training instead of going to competition unprepared. The dancers, O'Brien and Merriman have relocated to the United States and have since broken the World's top twenty. Brooklee Han, Cheltzie Lee and some of the men go o/s part of the year for training as well)

Using a local model, Gymnastics Australia in 1983 for example, saw their ladies' team ranked 23rd in the World. 20 years later, they stood on the World podium. This upswing has increased awareness, government assistance, participation in the sport, and weeded recreational team representatives out from serious, driven athletes.

Training coaches up to speed with the necessary teaching skills and demanding that the gymnasts meet and surpass minimum international requirements, is now producing top eight event final and World medal results.

[Aussie Willy]

Training coaches up to speed with the necessary teaching skills and demanding that the gymnasts meet and surpass minimum international requirements, is now producing top eight event final and World medal results.

Well your other issue is as coaches are self-employed, any responsibility for their training and development falls back on themselves. It is not as if someone is going to pay for it. And as most do not earn fantastic incomes, they are limited financially in what they can do to improve their skills.

[essence_of_soy]

Well your other issue is as coaches are self-employed, any responsibility for their training and development falls back on themselves. It is not as if someone is going to pay for it. And as most do not earn fantastic incomes, they are limited financially in what they can do to improve their skills.

[AndyWarhol]

I guess this is why this topic is going around in circles.

Is it about an association's responsibility to create serious competitive skaters or sending unprepared athletes overseas (without the necessary minimum jumping skills) simply to have them come last?

(Since the athletes are paying their own way, if they are serious about the sport, my earlier suggestion was for them to use their money going overseas for the necessary jump skills training instead of going to competition unprepared. The dancers, O'Brien and Merriman have relocated to the United States and have since broken the World's top twenty. Brooklee Han, Cheltzie Lee and some of the men go o/s part of the year for training as well)

Using a local model, Gymnastics Australia in 1983 for example, saw their ladies' team ranked 23rd in the World. 20 years later, they stood on the World podium. This upswing has increased awareness, government assistance, participation in the sport, and weeded recreational team representatives out from serious, driven athletes.

Training coaches up to speed with the necessary teaching skills and demanding that the gymnasts meet and surpass minimum international requirements, is now producing top eight event final and World medal results.

I wish ISA would be like Gymnastics Australia, but, it isn't. Most of the gymnast on the 2000 Olympic team were put on a training squad at the institute of sport when they were 7, with government funded training that was 30+ hours a week from that age. That just isn't going to happen with ice skating.

[barbk]

I wish ISA would be like Gymnastics Australia, but, it isn't. Most of the gymnast on the 2000 Olympic team were put on a training squad at the institute of sport when they were 7, with government funded training that was 30+ hours a week from that age. That just isn't going to happen with ice skating.

Most countries, including the US, have sports that they support, and other sports that get little to no support. Cricket is a wildly popular sport internationally, but it receives virtually no support in the US. From my visit to Australia I suspect that it gets quite a bit more support in Australia. (And having watched a match, I still don't understand the rules.)

Did Korean interest in figure skating dramatically increase, resulting in more skaters and eventually YuNa Kim, or was YuNa Kim's success the trigger that made it wildly popular. The latter is certainly my impression.

[essence_of_soy]

Did Korean interest in figure skating dramatically increase, resulting in more skaters and eventually YuNa Kim, or was YuNa Kim's success the trigger that made it wildly popular. The latter is certainly my impression.

Korea has certainly had visible talent as early as 1987.

I recall attending junior worlds in Brisbane and an unheralded skater, Sung Il - Jung, blew everyone away with his technical and artistic ability.

Here's his free skate

[Aussie Willy]

Most countries, including the US, have sports that they support, and other sports that get little to no support. Cricket is a wildly popular sport internationally, but it receives virtually no support in the US. From my visit to Australia I suspect that it gets quite a bit more support in Australia. (And having watched a match, I still don't understand the rules.)

Cricket in Australia has major TV rights and sponsorship. There is a grass roots program called Milo Cricket which is the little kids development program and I think some of the money the sport makes does get invested in this.

Though cricket is very much a sport that depends on success. When Australia is doing really well, then you get more kids wanting to do it. When it doesn't do so well it does have issues attracting new kids to the sport.

Same goes for soccer too. The Australian league has it's dedicated bunch of supporters, but it has to compete against Australian Rule Football which is pretty much the biggest sport in this country.

[essence_of_soy]

Sad to think that the spectator potential of skating in Australia is vastly overshadowed by two sports, one tediously slow and dull, and the other, blood - thirsty and violent.

[Katarzyna]

There is an international recreational test system. ISI (International Ice Skating Institute). It was formerly ISIA (Ice Skating Institute of America). Although it started in the US there are now competitions in Singapore and Bangkok among other places. ISI Worlds are held once a year in the US. Chen Lu brought a Chinese team one year.

Thank you for the information. But unfortunately this system is not known in Austria. And going overseas for adult testing would be really crazy!

Most countries, including the US, have sports that they support, and other sports that get little to no support.

Same for Austria. Popular winter sports are skiing and ski jumping. No support for figure skating, rather the opposite. Actually we even don’t have enough skating rinks in Vienna. There is always not enough ice time. Not only for Adults, but also for the poor kids who do it on athlete level.

Does anyone have insights in the testing system in Russia? With the depth of good figure skaters there it would be interesting to get some details about it.