View Poll Results: Which figure skating champion is the weakest link?

Voters
196. You may not vote on this poll
  • Lu Chen

    4 2.04%
  • Michelle Kwan

    5 2.55%
  • Tara Lipinski

    9 4.59%
  • Maria Butyrskaya

    24 12.24%
  • Sarah Hughes

    104 53.06%
  • Irina Slutskaya

    2 1.02%
  • Shizuka Arakawa

    5 2.55%
  • Miki Ando

    20 10.20%
  • Mao Asada

    7 3.57%
  • Yuna Kim

    3 1.53%
  • Carolina Kostner

    13 6.63%
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 61 to 74 of 74
  1. #61

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    The Top of Utah!!
    Age
    55
    Posts
    7,540
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19192

    Question

    When will we get to vote in Round 3?
    Nubka - Unpaid Slave Laborer...

  2. #62
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    730
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    In the 6 years she skated, Sarah won very few comps. She was a strong and consistent skater who almost always landed on the podium in silver or bronze. This is impressive for someone so young, but she really was more consistent than elegant. Her world medal was actually after 4th in both sp and lp. Not to take away from her fierceness, but her "wins" did often depend on others f-ing up, but that's the way the sport works. So yeah, her OGM did rely heavily on her world bronze over Maria, and her SC gold over MK and IS, reputation wise. I honestly don't remember her scores over the years, but I don't recall them being that high. Probably always higher tech than pres marks, but I don't recall.

    So anywho, she may not have come out of nowhere, nor been on the benefitting end of some silly vast NA conspiracy to keep Russia down but I do seem to recall her as a solid 5th-2nd type skater with 5.7 type marks, not an OGM contender.
    Completely agree with you.. Her marks ranged from 5.6-5.8... She won SC and was consistently 2-5th, and often got 5.8's for tech and 5.6/5.8 for presentation.. I agree she was not the best skater in Salt lake but it's not like she was a complete nobody.. Ok.. Out with Hughes.. When DOES round 3 begin?

  3. #63

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    En el trabajo en mi obra maestra, "Bodegón de rosas, las toronjas y el Planetario", que se llevará algún tiempo.
    Age
    33
    Posts
    23,082
    vCash
    80943
    Rep Power
    91368
    This poll closes at 6:10 p.m. (EST?) on June 2, so I imagine the next thread will appear either tomorrow night or the next day.

  4. #64
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    53
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    My comment about Sarah Hughes, with full disclosure: I was very sad to see the judges favor her over Maria Butyrskaya multiple times, and not because I am a big fan of Maria's skating, but because I often disagreed with the marks, especially Sarah's presentation marks. I remember this phenomenon happening around the 2000-2001 season and shaking my head. Maria's feel for her music meant that she could do some choreographing herself, and I thought she presented a great example of an artist. Sarah, as others have pointed out, seemed gawky and juniorish and offered not much more than a smile. I seem to recall the judges going out of their way to bury Maria in 2000-2001 and then, more or less, completely giving up on her in 2001-2002. Sad. Sad. Sad.

    Even still, while I AM with those who thought Sarah was overmarked in the SP (and others undermarked), my memory doesn't disagree with her being well-regarded in the LP and taking advantage of a screwy night from the others' point of view.

  5. #65
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    730
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Plusdinfo View Post
    My comment about Sarah Hughes, with full disclosure: I was very sad to see the judges favor her over Maria Butyrskaya multiple times, and not because I am a big fan of Maria's skating, but because I often disagreed with the marks, especially Sarah's presentation marks. I remember this phenomenon happening around the 2000-2001 season and shaking my head. Maria's feel for her music meant that she could do some choreographing herself, and I thought she presented a great example of an artist. Sarah, as others have pointed out, seemed gawky and juniorish and offered not much more than a smile. I seem to recall the judges going out of their way to bury Maria in 2000-2001 and then, more or less, completely giving up on her in 2001-2002. Sad. Sad. Sad.

    Even still, while I AM with those who thought Sarah was overmarked in the SP (and others undermarked), my memory doesn't disagree with her being well-regarded in the LP and taking advantage of a screwy night from the others' point of view.
    The Russian federation always favored slutskaya over butyrskaya. So I'm not surprised that Maria's marks dropped.. The sign was clear when Maria lost a clean and impressive Maria lost to a shaky Slutskaya at NHK.. So the judges dropping their marks for Maria I'm sure was in response to the politicking of irina over Maria. That said Maria's programs for the Olympic season did not seem right.. Her packaging made her seem older than what she really was.. Her SP from nice was sublime.. She should've stuck with that kind of style

  6. #66
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Katellorizo
    Posts
    3,485
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    And you really think it has never been discussed since ?
    Even now, it's still discussed.
    Anyway, my point was just that Judgejudy was not the only one because I've read it many times here
    You are completely missing the point.

    It was very easy for people to say after the fact that Sarah Hughes didn't deserve to win because others (and specifically, according to judgejudy27, Suguri, Sebestyén, and Butyrskaya, should have been placed higher. But who actually said that in the brief spell (one day) before the Free Skate, when it was unlikely that Hughes would go from fourth to first?

    Like you, judgejudy27 wasn't a member of FSU at the time. So when he says:

    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Suguri, Sebeysten, and Butyrskaya all should have clearly beaten Hughes in the SP. That was the consensus of most people at the time. Just because there wasnt a clear consensus amongst the judges, doesnt mean there wasnt amongst others.
    it raises a question as to who "most people" are.

    I doubt there was a "Was Sarah Hughes Totally Gifted in the Short Program" here. In fact, I doubt it was that much of an issue, since, as has been said before, there were a bunch of skaters just below the top three who had "clean" but hardly sensational performances.

    Perhaps we should let judgejudy27 answer for himself, although I'm not holding my breath.

  7. #67
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,467
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    When will we get to vote in Round 3?
    round 3 is more fun and more options

  8. #68
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Entre Pinto y Valdemoro
    Posts
    705
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post



    Michelle had a lutz though it wasn't a true lutz in the sense that she didn't have a deep outside edge a la Shizuka Arakawa or Miki Ando. That's not to say she didn't flutz at times, but she did have a lutz. Here's a good angle of one from 2000: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...B8hvUfsA#t=12s Under the current rules, I'm pretty sure that would be credited as a correctly executed lutz.
    Really?
    I see a clear change of edge before the jump. I think it would be ! at best, although maybe someone with more of a technique eye than me can help

  9. #69
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,775
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Toss up between Hughes and Ando, but I ultimately went with Ando.

  10. #70
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    12,332
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by robinhood View Post
    Really?
    I see a clear change of edge before the jump. I think it would be ! at best, although maybe someone with more of a technique eye than me can help
    It's not a clear change of edge, since she is, in fact, never in an inside edge.
    But she is on the first part of the blade, which is not a good outside edge.
    Anyway, I'm sure many will disagree with me

  11. #71
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Somewhere, beyond the sea...
    Posts
    1,866
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by robinhood View Post
    Really?
    I see a clear change of edge before the jump. I think it would be ! at best, although maybe someone with more of a technique eye than me can help

    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    It's not a clear change of edge, since she is, in fact, never in an inside edge.
    But she is on the first part of the blade, which is not a good outside edge.
    Anyway, I'm sure many will disagree with me
    I definitely don't see a clear change of edge. She takes off from an outside edge, albeit a shallow one. Like I said, Michelle didn't have the deepest of outside edges but that definitely wasn't a flutz as the blade did not tilt inward at all. It's similar to Akiko Suzuki's lutz where the outside edge isn't as defined. It's still a lutz though...

  12. #72
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    473
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I think it's clear Hughes should have been below 4th after the short: shaky jumps, severe flutz and underrotations. Suguri, Sebestyen, and Butyrskaya should all have been above. She deserved to win the long, fair and square. That shouldn't be argued about.

    As for Suguri winning bronze, I don't see where the argument is. Her SP was not a top 3 one. In the long, Cohen landed 6 triples to Suguri's 5. What are people arguing about? Sasha had a fall on the end of a triple-triple, but she skated the rest of the program quite well.

    It goes without saying that it doesn't make any sense to go back and apply CoP rules to 2002. I don't think CoP policies regarding jumps now are reasonable, but even with my opinions aside, we can't compare scores just like that.

  13. #73
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,176
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    I think it's clear Hughes should have been below 4th after the short: shaky jumps, severe flutz and underrotations. Suguri, Sebestyen, and Butyrskaya should all have been above. She deserved to win the long, fair and square. That shouldn't be argued about.
    Actually I was much less sure about that. 5.8 for presentation I can live with, but 5.8 for technical merit too? 5.5 at best for me.

    As for Suguri winning bronze, I don't see where the argument is. Her SP was not a top 3 one. In the long, Cohen landed 6 triples to Suguri's 5. What are people arguing about? Sasha had a fall on the end of a triple-triple, but she skated the rest of the program quite well.
    A minority view I know, but I feel that Suguri skated about twice as fast as Cohen and was overall a better skater at the time. I wouldn't object to Suguri earning presentation marks 0.2 more than Cohen in the free.

  14. #74

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    NY/NJ
    Posts
    4,924
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    32911
    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I doubt there was a "Was Sarah Hughes Totally Gifted in the Short Program" here. In fact, I doubt it was that much of an issue, since, as has been said before, there were a bunch of skaters just below the top three who had "clean" but hardly sensational performances.
    I recall people complaining in real time (i.e., during the SCL Games) that Hughes was overmarked in the SP. And Hughes was quoted as saying she thought she was undermarked in the SP, and people took serious umbrage and said she was lucky to get fourth. But I think it was on that old FSW board rather than FSU (I didn't find FSU until later).

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •