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  1. #621
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    Administrations - please delete this comment - intended for another thread! Thanks!
    Last edited by paskatefan; 09-06-2012 at 11:29 AM. Reason: adminstrators, please delete this post - intended for another thread!

  2. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Argh! Why isn't the reigning Junior World Champion moving up to seniors, when China has so many GP spots to give for men they are starting to give them to someone whom nobody knows or hasn't done anything? It really is time to invest in He Zhang and Yan Han and forget about Guan Jinlin. It's the freaking pre-Olympic season! If Song Nan faltered at Worlds again like last year, China will again be left with one guy for Sochi. Even if they pick Yan Han over Song Nan for Worlds this year, he will have practically no senior international experience and will be snubbed by judges and by skate order.

    Give Yan Han a freaking chance!!!
    Yes,it's a shame that Han still competing on the junior circuit,but on the other hand Yi Wang deserves that host pick,maybe even more deserve than Jinlin Guan IMO. He was fifth at the Chinese National Winter Games(rank after Nan Song,Han Yan,Jialiang Wu and Boyang Jin) and a bronze medalist at a national competition this April.He suffered a lot from injuries that kept him away from international competitions in his junior time.I am excited for his international debut at coc,he has a quad (but still struggle with 3a) and I think he will surprise a lot people with his SS and presentation

  3. #623

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    Thanks for the information on Yi Wang, whispering! I dug out the following from the FSU Archives:
    Chinese National FS Cup
    Apr 11 – 13, 2012
    Qiqihar, China

    1 Han YAN 71.48 (1) / 146.00 (1) = 217.48
    2 Boyang JIN 62.02 (2) / 135.83 (2) = 197.85
    3 Yi WANG 61.50 (3) / 129.21 (3) = 190.71

    SP
    3 WANG: 4T (-2), 3F+3T (0.93), FCSp3, 2A, CSSp4, SlSt3, CCoSp4

    FS
    3 WANG 68.53(B) TES / 60.68 PCS: 4T (+2), 3Lo (+1.17), 3F+3T (+1.17), 3Lz (-1.4), 3F (-1.4), 3S (+0.47), 2A (+0.33), 1A+2T

    I assume the (B) is a bonus given out for quad attempts.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  4. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by laceup View Post
    Such a waste to not send one of many options for ladies but since Schultz broke up with Steele in July I don't believe there is any other pair team to send.
    Where did you get the information that Steele and Schultz have split up? Is this confirmed?

  5. #625

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post

    In related news, at least Li Zijun finally has her second assignment. I don't know whose brain was at work when they decided to give an assignment to Geng Bingwa before securing a second one for Li Zijun.
    That was a smart brain actually. It was obviously strategic since Li had guaranteed one event for being top 24SB , so by leaving her on purpose out of COC they made sure another Fed had to invite her and then they could give her 2nd event by picking her for the TBA spot. Geng on the other hand had no guaranteed event so it was logical they picked her as an initial host spot.

  6. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by seabm7 View Post
    (Phaneuf is resting her back, skipping GP's this year.)
    Thanks!

    She may need a higher score to meet the TES minimums, were she to earn the single spot for London. I wonder when the ISU will announce if the lower the World minimums, but there are Senior B's between Ca Nats and the final Worlds deadline, if they don't or the minimums are still too high.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  7. #627

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    I think dropping the TES minimum is based on how many have actually got the minimum score. I don't think that will change until all qualifying events to achieve the TES score is done before Worlds.

  8. #628

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    Quote Originally Posted by hohoho View Post
    I think dropping the TES minimum is based on how many have actually got the minimum score. I don't think that will change until all qualifying events to achieve the TES score is done before Worlds.
    Exactly, Im positive that if by the end of 4CC there are more than 30 possible entries (right now there are about 19-20) with the minimun score it wont get lowered.

  9. #629
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    There are three Senior B's concurrent with 4C's. There are three Senior B's after 4C's for Men, Ladies, and Ice Dance, plus Jr. Worlds that end seven days before Senior Worlds.

    Except for Pairs, where the last Senior competitions before Worlds are 4C's and the concurrent Bavarian Open, there's a world of difference between "all the qualifying events to achieve the TES score is done before Worlds" -- i.e., Citta di Torino (Men, Ladies, Ice Dance) -- and end of 4C's.

    My question for the ISU is whether they are going to lower the score while it is still possible for Ladies, Men, and Dancers to meet the new minimum after the new score is set, or whether they will wait until after the last Senior B in February (2.5 weeks before Worlds), and set the minimum so that they have their 30 (or whatever the target is) skaters.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  10. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiK View Post
    That was a smart brain actually. It was obviously strategic since Li had guaranteed one event for being top 24SB , so by leaving her on purpose out of COC they made sure another Fed had to invite her and then they could give her 2nd event by picking her for the TBA spot. Geng on the other hand had no guaranteed event so it was logical they picked her as an initial host spot.
    I had thought of that, but then if that was the case, CHN really would have added her right away after the initial assignments were out. And they didn't even use that tactic on Yan Han.

    I am more inclined to think that for whatever political / stubborn / pecking order reason, they prefer to not let those talented newbies take things for granted and have them wait their turn. China was full of talented singles skaters but they just kept sending the disappointing ones like Wu Jialiang, Guan Jinlin, Liu Yan (post 2006), Geng Bingwa and Zhu Qiuying etc for no reason. There was no programme.

  11. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I am more inclined to think that for whatever political / stubborn / pecking order reason, they prefer to not let those talented newbies take things for granted and have them wait their turn.
    And to keep Yan Han junior

  12. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I had thought of that, but then if that was the case, CHN really would have added her right away after the initial assignments were out. And they didn't even use that tactic on Yan Han.

    I am more inclined to think that for whatever political / stubborn / pecking order reason, they prefer to not let those talented newbies take things for granted and have them wait their turn. China was full of talented singles skaters but they just kept sending the disappointing ones like Wu Jialiang, Guan Jinlin, Liu Yan (post 2006), Geng Bingwa and Zhu Qiuying etc for no reason. There was no programme.
    China isn't the only one with a 'wait your turn' attitude.

    That said, I think Yan Han's case is different from Ji Jun as China wants to leave open the option of sending Yan Han to junior world again. Anyway, right now, if Yan Han does well nationally he still can do 4CC. While I don't agree with Yan Han being junior again, the option of him doing senior competition at 4CC or even worlds is still open.

    Of course as a fan, I feel robbed about not seeing the new promising junior world medalists at the GP.

  13. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Thanks!

    She may need a higher score to meet the TES minimums, were she to earn the single spot for London. I wonder when the ISU will announce if the lower the World minimums, but there are Senior B's between Ca Nats and the final Worlds deadline, if they don't or the minimums are still too high.
    Does the Canadian lady actually need to meet the TES minimum? Canada is the host country. Until now, the host has always been able to have a direct entry into the SP and FS at any ISU Championship, even when there were Qualifying or Preliminary Rounds and the host's entry would not otherwise have advanced. I'm not sure that's changed.

  14. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    China isn't the only one with a 'wait your turn' attitude.

    That said, I think Yan Han's case is different from Ji Jun as China wants to leave open the option of sending Yan Han to junior world again. Anyway, right now, if Yan Han does well nationally he still can do 4CC. While I don't agree with Yan Han being junior again, the option of him doing senior competition at 4CC or even worlds is still open.

    Of course as a fan, I feel robbed about not seeing the new promising junior world medalists at the GP.
    Well, I am going to convince myself that it's going to be easier for Yan Han to win JGPs and medal at JGPF and hence get ISU points than for him to medal at senior GPs and make GPF. I hope the Chinese Fed keeps an open mind about sending Yan Han to Worlds, especially if he significantly beats Song Nan at 4CCs. (if Song Nan beats Yan Han soundly at 4CCs, then shut me up )

    Song Nan had to rely on jumps to be competitive but Yan Han was already equaling Farris and Brown in PCS. If Yan Han competes and skates well at the GPs, his PCS can climb further. I really think he has a better shot than Song Nan in getting China a second spot for the men for Sochi.

  15. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Does the Canadian lady actually need to meet the TES minimum? Canada is the host country. Until now, the host has always been able to have a direct entry into the SP and FS at any ISU Championship, even when there were Qualifying or Preliminary Rounds and the host's entry would not otherwise have advanced. I'm not sure that's changed.
    Yes. The host nation has not been able to enter a skater automatically into the first phase of the competition since the 2009-10 season the latest, before minimum score requirements were added. According to the 2010 Special Regs Rule 378 paragraph 8, the following text was added for the 2010 version of the document (emphasis added),

    In case the Competitor(s) of the Host Member went through the normal qualifying procedure and did not qualify for the first segment of a Championships/discipline according to paragraphs 5 or 6 above, one Competitor of the Host Member shall have the right to additionally enter and participate in each discipline (Ladies, Men, Pair Skating and Ice Dance), provided the Host Member Competitor(s) fulfils the Minimum Score requirements according to paragraph 3 above. This competitor will have the starting number one (1) and in Single Skating the first warm up group will be exceeded with one (1) Skater; in Pair Skating and Ice Dance, if necessary, the first warm up group will be divided into two subgroups with a separate warm-up for each of them.
    Paragraphs 5 and 6, which refer to direct vs. indirect entries have been nullified due to decisions taken earlier this year and listed in Communication 1742 #7, but the principle is the same: in order for the host nation to enter a skater into the first phase of a competition, that skater must have met the minimum score. There's nothing in the 2012 decisions that exempts the host skaters from meeting the minimum scores. 1742 #7 also explicitly replaces the minimum scores listed in paragraph 3 of the 2010 document with the new minimums added this year, including minimums for Jr. Worlds.

    The ISU has been releasing updated Constitutions and Special Regs biannually in even years, but I haven't seen any 2012 updates. Communication 1742, released on 27 June, refers to the 2010 document.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 09-07-2012 at 09:52 AM.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  16. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Wonder what's behind Skate Canada's non-Canadian picks...
    Well done on supporting your skaters Skate Canada.

    Why not give an opportunity to DeSanctis who performed reasonably well last season?

    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiK View Post
    Yretha Silete's spots are still to be replaced. But the Feds will probably chose Helgesson and Lacoste cause they're lesser threats
    Given how Nagasu skated in the Summer, I wouldn't be so sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    In related news, at least Li Zijun finally has her second assignment. I don't know whose brain was at work when they decided to give an assignment to Geng Bingwa before securing a second one for Li Zijun.
    They were surely hoping that she would get a second spot as a replacement, leaving their host pick for somebody else.

    Re: 'Wait your turn'/'saving face' attitude. It's really hurting Chinese skating. They have tons and tons of skaters in all disciplines who are never getting a chance to compete internationally.

  17. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Well, I am going to convince myself that it's going to be easier for Yan Han to win JGPs and medal at JGPF and hence get ISU points than for him to medal at senior GPs and make GPF. I hope the Chinese Fed keeps an open mind about sending Yan Han to Worlds, especially if he significantly beats Song Nan at 4CCs. (if Song Nan beats Yan Han soundly at 4CCs, then shut me up )

    Song Nan had to rely on jumps to be competitive but Yan Han was already equaling Farris and Brown in PCS. If Yan Han competes and skates well at the GPs, his PCS can climb further. I really think he has a better shot than Song Nan in getting China a second spot for the men for Sochi.
    I'm afraid that you will be dissapointed that Yan Han may not compete at 4cc for 90% chance, not to mention Senior Worlds. The decision has been made and he is going to be held back in juniors for another season, for some reasons I don't think Chinese Fed cares about how many spots they will have for the men for Sochi.

  18. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceflame View Post
    I'm afraid that you will be dissapointed that Yan Han may not compete at 4cc for 90% chance, not to mention Senior Worlds. The decision has been made and he is going to be held back in juniors for another season, for some reasons I don't think Chinese Fed cares about how many spots they will have for the men for Sochi.
    which I find odd considering China has amazing list of juniors and upcoming men skaters but are being held back in favor of their current inconsistent seniors

  19. #639

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    Quote Originally Posted by iceflame View Post
    I'm afraid that you will be dissapointed that Yan Han may not compete at 4cc for 90% chance, not to mention Senior Worlds. The decision has been made and he is going to be held back in juniors for another season, for some reasons I don't think Chinese Fed cares about how many spots they will have for the men for Sochi.
    I agree with you, there's almost no chance of Han Yan being sent to any senior ISU championships this year. Even if Song Nan gets injured or something, the other seniors will have priority over him.

    At least Han Yan did apparently get sent to Lake Arrowhead earlier this summer -- though for what I don't know. Sadly, he still didn't get to work with any foreign choreographers, again, despite what the federation promised him last season.

    I think it's all down to politics over which coaches have the most clout...

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    It's a sad situation re Han yan. Talents must be nurtured and exposure must be given ... Yet the old fashioned mindsets hinder everything

    Well, nan song is not bad. Hope he can compete in Sochi and finish in the top ten there. That would be quite an achievement already

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