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  1. #361
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    The ISU, and the reasoning was that it would help to prevent injuries that young skaters would sustain by attempting senior content in senior competitions. While they haven't stopped juniors from attempting senior content, they haven't been rewarded for it with anything except (depending on the year) a guaranteed GP spot if they become seniors, as the prize money and prestige of winning at the junior level is far less.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    The ISU, and the reasoning was that it would help to prevent injuries that young skaters would sustain by attempting senior content in senior competitions.
    That's the official reasoning, but it's been speculated that the rule was to keep phenoms like Lipinski from winning and immediately retiring. Had Asada been eligible to skate in Torino, she might have won and retired, and the Japanese federation and ISU would have lost a star and all the revenue from ticket sales that comes with it.

    I agree with Macassar88 - if a skater is ready and wants to move up, let them.

  3. #363
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    Had Lipinski not had a hip issue that made Nagano her only chance, she might not have retired immediately. Hughes was a young Olympic champion, stayed, and had a meh follow-up year.

    So odd to have a policy built around the exception, not the rule.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  4. #364

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Had Lipinski not had a hip issue that made Nagano her only chance, she might not have retired immediately. Hughes was a young Olympic champion, stayed, and had a meh follow-up year.

    So odd to have a policy built around the exception, not the rule.
    Had Lipinski not trained that hard in junior age, she maight have avoided that injury

  5. #365

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    USFSA had somehow managed in the past to get a GP for their top 5 at nationals. This is the first year the fed won't be able to do so, mainly because of reduced entries, a couple of poor strategies (4cc assignment), and probably the return of Evan (who will likely take up the TBA at SA)

    Remind me what the deadline is for Evan to make up his mind if he's skating or dancing with the stars this year?

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by npavel View Post
    Had Lipinski not trained that hard in junior age, she maight have avoided that injury
    had Lipinski not trained that hard as a junior, she most likely would have been another talented, yet unknown skater

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by npavel View Post
    Had Lipinski not trained that hard in junior age, she maight have avoided that injury
    Age limits didn't stop her from training them. Had she not been able to skate seniors when she did, she still would have been physically broken, and she might have squeezed another year out of her body.

    Weren't Lipinski and Hughes, later, grandfathered in the first place, as would Cohen have been, had she won (or medaled?) at Jr. Worlds?
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  8. #368

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    ....

    Weren't Lipinski and Hughes, later, grandfathered in the first place, as would Cohen have been, had she won (or medaled?) at Jr. Worlds?
    Lipinski never medaled at Junior Worlds; she was "grandfathered in" because she competed at Senior Worlds in '96 (before the age limit took effect). If the USFS had given an injury bye to Nicole Bobek in '96, Tara would not have been age eligible for the '97 Worlds.

  9. #369

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    attyfan is correct. The minimum age for ISU Championships and Olympics (15 by the preceding July 1) was passed at the 1996 ISU Congress.

    Back on topic...
    Quote Originally Posted by judiz View Post
    Remind me what the deadline is for Evan to make up his mind if he's skating or dancing with the stars this year?
    I don't know, but the deadline for entering the 2012-13 U.S. qualifying season is Sept. 1 (even though Lysacek has a bye to Nationals he still has to register online). ETA: If he wants to be considered for the Skate America TBA, I imagine he would have to let USFS know ASAP, if he hasn't already done so.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 06-17-2012 at 02:09 AM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    Lipinski never medaled at Junior Worlds; she was "grandfathered in" because she competed at Senior Worlds in '96 (before the age limit took effect). If the USFS had given an injury bye to Nicole Bobek in '96, Tara would not have been age eligible for the '97 Worlds.
    I see how I wasn't clear: the reason for Cohen's possibly grandfathering should have been in parentheses, as specific to her.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Age limits didn't stop her from training them. Had she not been able to skate seniors when she did, she still would have been physically broken, and she might have squeezed another year out of her body.
    Top-down imposed age limits can only do so much. Eventually, it comes down to the coaches and the skaters and the parents. The ISU could outright ban 3-3s in junior competition, and it would still come down to coaches.
    The Junior Grand Prix: Where skaters who "come out of nowhere" come from.

  12. #372
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    Exactly. Plus, with changes from puberty, including growth spurts, right around the corner, many 13-15-year-olds with lots of jumps may be hitting their all-time peak, and it's now or never, especially when the Olympics come only every four years.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Exactly. Plus, with changes from puberty, including growth spurts, right around the corner, many 13-15-year-olds with lots of jumps may be hitting their all-time peak, and it's now or never, especially when the Olympics come only every four years.
    Is that what you really want for LADIES' figure skating? The way it used to be in gymnastics- hot at 14, washed up at 16? I sure don't. How is that good for the sport? Some 13 year old 70 pound cute little girl comes out one season with a 3-3 that is probably tiny ( think of how little height Tara got on her jumps) because they lack power due to very limited muscle mass.

    These prebubescent little girls can often "do" 3/3 only because of their prepubescent tiny size and lose those jumps as soon as they grow due to poor technique to begin with- Caroline Zhang, anyone? I live how she has now shown how with extremely hard work, she was able to correct many of her technique issues, recover many of her jumps, and now actually has some spring and power in some of those jumps. Yes, she had a rough couple years getting through it, but overall I much prefer the skater she is now to the little girl she once was. Had she been able to go to worlds at 14- let's say she won- do to really think she would have stayed in and worked so hard to fix her technique abd become the skater she is today? I doubt it. Because she was held back, she had to become a lady skater after puberty, worked hard, is seemingly well adjusted and loving the sport. How is that a bad thing?

    Give my a real lady as a champion in the LADIES' division, and let the little girls stay where they belong. At least the new moves on the field patterns in the US now require more power at the novice- senior levels than some pint sized 12 year old girl would normally have and should slow some of these girls down from hitting senior so fast. Give me the beauty, maturity, and sophistication of a real lady any day over some pipsqueak with next to no speed, power, ice coverage, etc who can land her jumps today but may lose them by tomorrow.
    Last edited by carriecmu0503; 06-17-2012 at 02:31 PM.

  14. #374

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    Could all this talk about junior ladies and their training be relocated elsewhere, please?? NOthing against the subject but everytime I see this thread bumped I'm hoping for some news about withdrawals or replacements for the grand prix instead.


  15. #375

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    Please someone tell me that its April's fools day

    http://www.gazzetta.it/Sport_Inverna...40602542.shtml

  16. #376

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    So that would mean that there are going to be open spots in China and France.
    I hope one of those goes to Misha Ge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiK View Post
    Could all this talk about junior ladies and their training be relocated elsewhere, please?? NOthing against the subject but everytime I see this thread bumped I'm hoping for some news about withdrawals or replacements for the grand prix instead.

    Same here!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandra_persch View Post
    Please someone tell me that its April's fools day

    http://www.gazzetta.it/Sport_Inverna...40602542.shtml

  18. #378

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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    So that would mean that there are going to be open spots in China and France.
    I hope one of those goes to Misha Ge.
    I want one for Peter Liebers if I have to go on without watching Samuel Contesti and Peter van der Perren from now

  19. #379

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    Liebers is way down the alternative list thanks to his subpar last season..

    Next in line will be:
    Sergei Voronov SB 25
    Jorik Hendrickx SB 28
    Andrei Rogozine SB 29
    Artur Dmitriev SB 30
    Jinlin Guan SB 31
    Misha Ge SB 31

    Guan and Dmitriev can't get COC and Hendrickx cant get TEB cause they're already entered there.

    My guess is China will pick Rogozine or Hendrickx (weak contenders against chinese guys) and France will pick Voronov or Dmitriev (they dont have a russian men yet)

  20. #380

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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiK View Post
    Liebers is way down the alternative list thanks to his subpar last season..
    subpar is not the word I would use after the injury he sustained during pre-session preparation.

    Frankly I don't care about the substitute system all that much. I rather they just went by who does best in the international competitions leading up to the SGPs.

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