2012-13 ISU Grand Prix Assignments

[shine]

Wait...you think FARRIS is boring, but that YAN is "exciting" enough to compete with Brown?

Someone needs their eyes checked...last time I looked, Farris and Brown were about fifty million steps ahead of Yan in musicality, fluidity, and presentation. Yan's jumps were good, but his artistry really let him down. Farris' artistry was what got him to within half a point of winning the Junior World Championship!

Doesn't seem to be a hindrance for Yan so far though. And his SS is considerably better than the other two at this point in their career. He's also the youngest. All he needs is some legitimate choreography and better packaging. There's so much raw talent.

[Jaana]

I could agree, but your argument would work better if he hadn't come 9th at Senior Nationals last year with three falls, beating certain skaters such as Mroz and Dornbush...

That is no indication of how good Brown is, but more of how unsuccesful others were... The level just isn´t very high, LOL.

[pinky166]

ugh so disappointing same top 3 n JGPF
the only good about this will be Brown finally getting his 3A

If he gets that, he is pretty much unbeatable
Farris is too boring to compete with Brown only Yan can challenge him

All 3 got comparable, very high PCS at junior worlds so I think that argument is moot.

Jason Brown is no victim of the USFS. They freaking love him and have given him monstrous scores at Nationals the past 2 seasons despite having no 3a and making mistakes. I wouldn't be surprised if the decision to stay on the JGP was his own, he hasn't done the 3a in competition yet and he said in an interview a year or two back he wasn't going to rush into seniors internationally and planned to do the JGP for a couple more years at least, just like Lysacek did. He said his goal was now 2018 anyways where the 3a is taking longer to master than he expected. I think the USFS can afford to do this because they know he isn't a threat to the "established" skaters without a 3a. When and if he gets a solid 3a, I could see the lovefest ending, at least until after Sochi...

Farris seems to be a victim of the USFS. He didn't skate well at Nationals but his scores were still too low, all those guys with ladies content did not deserve to place ahead of him when he went for 2 triple axels and a 4t in his FS, and further, getting significantly lower PCS at Nationals as a senior compared to his internationals as a junior is fishy, especially when others were getting huge bonuses. I mean, the JW silver medalist, who came 0.47 from winning the entire championship with the highest score in history, was 16TH at US nationals? Really? The USFS knows this kid is good and has the goods to overtake someone like Rippon, Dornbush, or Miner very easily and quickly, and they are trying to prevent that. Jason has no 3a yet so they don't worry about him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he starts trying 3a with success in his programs, if he faces similar treatment the next couple years. USFS is blatantly holding Joshua Farris back in order to prevent him from overtaking the likes of Rippon, Miner, and Dornbush, etc before the 2014 Olympics. After Sochi I'm sure they will all of a sudden be supportive of him and give him the attention and scores he deserves, but until then, I expect more of the same. I'm confident that Joshua could skate well enough to earn a spot on this season's world team, but not very confident that the USFS would give him the scores at nationals to be sent, they'll likely deflate or keep his PCS the same as internationally while inflating everyone elses hugely to keep him as low as possible. Josh wanted to move up, he had a senior invitation guaranteed, he has the goods to move up, his SB was as high as the 2nd and 3rd place finishers at US Senior Nationals, he medaled at all his junior internationals this season, and the USFS says "No, you're staying junior another season." Umm wtf.

The situation in China is also similar, Nan Song was pretty much a non-factor but then he has a good season on the GP and all of a sudden he's the new focus of China even though Yan at 16 is already much stronger in terms of skating skills, speed, and artistry. They are all gung ho for Song for Sochi and will make Yan wait his turn and likely keep him junior until after Sochi, unless Song manages to get 2 spots for the Olympics by placing in the top 10 at this season's worlds, which seems like a stretch considering he was 14th this year with that very strong FS.

[Sylvia]

The level just isn´t very high, LOL.

Some of the 2012 US Nationals Senior Men's free skates I really enjoyed came from the earlier groups where the level was quite high, IMO: Scott Dyer, Jonathan Cassar, Grant Hochstein and Alex Johnson, to name four.

ETA: I hope Joshua Farris doesn't think of himself as a "victim" and continues to focus on his overall skating progress. The mental pressures of skating successfully at the senior national and international level are immense -- it's much more than attempting/landing the most difficult jumps in competition.

I'm still baffled that Armin didn't get an assignment and Dornbush got 2 (?).

I think Mahbanoozadeh's low ISU SB score was why he didn't get at least 1 GP invite. That's why he needed (and deserved, IMO) to go to Four Continents as the first alternate.

[The Observer]

It is indeed surprising that Paul/Islam got totally dumped. Maybe Gilles/Poirier have been monitored and really improved a lot already?

Paul Poirier is one of the best male ice dancers in Canada, so it makes sense that after losing some ground last year when he had to find another partner that Skate Canada would want Paul & Piper to have a chance to get going.

They did well at Nationals, and it was unfortunate that they missed out on Worlds because of the USFSA release situation even though they had qualified to go there by finishing 3rd.

[haribobo]

He didn't skate well at Nationals but his scores were still too low, all those guys with ladies content did not deserve to place ahead of him when he went for 2 triple axels and a 4t in his FS, and further, getting significantly lower PCS at Nationals as a senior compared to his internationals as a junior is fishy, especially when others were getting huge bonuses.

His program at Nationals was done to probably the most overused music in the history of skating, and instead of choreography, he just stretched his arms out and skated around. There was *zero* choreo in that program, absolutely nothing. Compare that to this, his Transformers program from earlier in the season, which definitely seemed to have some purpose and originality and was skated with some vigor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ3YfsuiKZg

Someone along the way made a conscious decision to scrap a pretty good program and hastily throw together a far inferior Rach program. That is not guidance in the right direction for this talented skater.

Also, his technical performance was nothing amazing at Nationals and the 3ax and quad attempts don't automatically put him ahead of "ladies content" skaters just because he tries them. He fell on the quad and both axels were botchy and ground out. Then there was the fall on the lutz, a singled jump on the end of a combo, and a slip in the footwork. So all in all, there were only 4 clean triples- loop, lutz, flip, and salchow. I see nothing to wuzrob about this kind of performance and placement.

In contrast, "ladies content skaters" Johnson had 7 clean triples, Cassar had 5-6, Dyer had 5-6, and Brown also only showed 4, but all had good skating and programs. So yes, all 4 deserved to finish ahead of Josh this time.

All that said, Josh is clearly a strong skater in general with a lot of potential, and I hope for great things for him in the future. I hope he has learned from this Rach debacle. He is still very young and has time. Either he forgot a lot of the choreo during the performance, or someone along the way thought outstretched arms = good program. Perplexing.

Between Brown and Farris' SP and LP at Nationals, neither was able to show a clean triple axel or quad jump. I can definitely see why they are going back to JGP, as good as their junior results have been.

[misskarne]

His program at Nationals was done to probably the most overused music in the history of skating, and instead of choreography, he just stretched his arms out and skated around. There was *zero* choreo in that program, absolutely nothing. Compare that to this, his Transformers program from earlier in the season, which definitely seemed to have some purpose and originality and was skated with some vigor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ3YfsuiKZg

Someone along the way made a conscious decision to scrap a pretty good program and hastily throw together a far inferior Rach program. That is not guidance in the right direction for this talented skater.

Please tell me this is some kind of joke. If you think that the Transformers program had more choreo, you must be blind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVpYlFPImj4

This is the Rach program as it was skated at its best - at JW. It was gorgeous, fluid, had way more choreography than you're giving it credit for, he connects with the music, he uses it well.

Compare that with the skating over the top of the Transformers music, not really going with it at all and looking about as disconnected from the music as it was possible to be...about the only good things he did in that program that he didn't do in the Rach one was the stag jump and illusion turn. The layout was appalling, the way those two spins towards the middle were placed was just not good at all. I just cannot conceive how you see this LP as being the superior one. The Rach LP was unquestionably more suited to his style of skating and his personality, and he pulled it off far better. As a whole, it was the superior program, and the Transformers one was the big mistake, IMO.

[pinky166]

He's keeping the Rach FS for another season, and for the record, if that program is so terrible, why did it score 146+, 71+ for PCS, at JW? The program is actually nice and much better suited to his skating style than the Transformers FS, which IMO overpowered him and was a bit disjointed due to the music cuts.

In any event, the problem I had with his scores at Nationals was the PCS, his TES for the FS of 69 was deserved and not actually that low. At the JGPF, he skated the same program and made a similar number of mistakes, and his PCS was 69 compared to the 65 at Nationals. Jason Brown also got PCS of 69 at the JGPF for a sterling, clean FS, and got PCS of 75 at Nationals for a 3-fall FS. Skaters like Dornbush, Rippon, Mahbanoozadeh, and Razzano all got PCS inflation at nationals in the form of 5 to 10 points over what they typically get internationally. So honestly, if Josh had received the same treatment, his FS score would have been 137-142 instead of the 132 he got, which honestly would have been reasonable considering the scores handed out to others.

[allezfred]

Can anybody tell me why the discussion about skaters competing on the Junior Grand Prix is taking place here and not the Junior Grand Prix thread? They haven't been given assignments in Seniors. It's done. Get over it.

[Sparks]

Can anybody tell me why the discussion about skaters competing on the Junior Grand Prix is taking place here and not the Junior Grand Prix thread? They haven't been given assignments in Seniors. It's done. Get over it.

Agreed.

[operagirl]

All Year FSC is holding it's club championships this weekend. Leah Keiser (58.24) is ahead of Courtney Hicks (54.34) after the SP.

[Sylvia]

operagirl, I think you meant to post the above in the JGP thread? I've re-posted there for you: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...88#post3584388

Can anybody tell me why the discussion about skaters competing on the Junior Grand Prix is taking place here and not the Junior Grand Prix thread?

Please let's not rehash this topic any further in the JGP thread. Thank you.

ETA: Here's a thread in the Trash Can that can be used instead : http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=78766&page=49

[RD]

Can anybody tell me why the discussion about skaters competing on the Junior Grand Prix is taking place here and not the Junior Grand Prix thread? They haven't been given assignments in Seniors. It's done. Get over it.

I have to agree here. There's a relevant thread for that...

[alchemy void]

Can anybody tell me why the discussion about skaters competing on the Junior Grand Prix is taking place here and not the Junior Grand Prix thread? They haven't been given assignments in Seniors. It's done. Get over it.

Where else are we to discuss this KONSPIRACY?!?

[Really]

Where else are we to discuss this KONSPIRACY?!?

In the Jr Grand Prix thread?

[oleada]

Or better yet, make a new thread to discuss it so the JGP thread can have actual info instead of just nonsense.

[allezfred]

Please let's not rehash this topic any further in the JGP thread. Thank you.

It's a much more appropriate thread to rehash it in if it has to be done.

[sandra_persch]

I can't believe that we have the first withdrawl already

Alexandra NAZAROVA / Maxim NIKITIN UKR have been crossed out at Rostelecom Cup

guess they want to stay junior?

[kwanfan1818]

Without the GP announcement with this year's alternates rules, it's hard to say who is in the running to replace them. Since they allowed split couples to be in the initial selections, it isn't clear whether they are still high on the replacements list (last year, second after comeback skaters) or on it at all if they were given initial assignments. (Of course, they can be chosen as host picks if they have one at another event.)

The only split couple in the initial selection is Gilles/Poirier, and they already have two (Skate Canada and Trophee Bompard). Even if they allow couples to be added after the initial GP deadline as they get together, it's pretty late for Crone to find one, since she and Sorensen just split.

Monko/Khaliavin should be considered comeback skaters for replacements purposes, since they were out of international competition last season, but they already are assigned to Rostelecom Cup. (They didn't take the one-time option to get two in the initial selection.)

The top-ranked Top 24 SB with one assignment is Tobias/Stagniunas (18 SB, Skate America), followed by Chock/Bates (20 SB), who have China the week before.

[euterpe]

Monko/Khaliavin should be considered comeback skaters for replacements purposes, since they were out of international competition last season, but they already are assigned to Rostelecom Cup. (They didn't take the one-time option to get two in the initial selection.)

A comeback skater is one who has finished top 6 at Senior Worlds and did not compete since then. M/K won JUNIOR Worlds 2011 and that is not the same thing at all.