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  1. #961
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Since a skater can't get to the gp final by winning only one gp event, it strikes me as strange that they don't let all skaters participate in two events. It hardly seems fair to let a skater compete in only one event, knowing full well they won't have a chance to get to the final now. What other sport has this kind of competition where you are already eliminated before you start?
    What Ziggy wrote. Also, that is another chance for those skaters to compete somewhere and show their programs to the public before bigger competitions (Euros, 4CC, Worlds), and to some skaters it is already the biggest international competition and the biggest chance to be noticed (by judges, and by the public) that they'll get.

  2. #962
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Since a skater can't get to the gp final by winning only one gp event, it strikes me as strange that they don't let all skaters participate in two events. It hardly seems fair to let a skater compete in only one event, knowing full well they won't have a chance to get to the final now. What other sport has this kind of competition where you are already eliminated before you start?
    Just so we're clear, how many skaters is all?

  3. #963

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    Perhaps all hosts should chip into an "alternate travel fund" after the invites are announced. Then when their alternates travel expenses end up being more than the their invited (anticipated) travel expenses, they can request reimbursement from the fund.

    Not every GP event is going to go over original travel budget by the same amount, but if they share the burden equally, this might give them an incentive to get the best skaters as replacements. They may not go over by much one year, but might be way over another year.

    That said, I'm not really sure why the travel costs are an issue. They no longer have to pay the travel for the withdrawn skater so it should be something of a wash. Obviously some skaters' travel will cost more, but the event might end up saving money on the deal, too.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  4. #964

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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    What Ziggy wrote. Also, that is another chance for those skaters to compete somewhere and show their programs to the public before bigger competitions (Euros, 4CC, Worlds), and to some skaters it is already the biggest international competition and the biggest chance to be noticed (by judges, and by the public) that they'll get.
    And another reason is that scores from GP count towards season's best score, while scores from other non-major competitions don't. So this is the only chance for skaters who cannot make their country's worlds team to even get on the SB list to participate in GP next year. Example - Biryukova had one event last year, put herself on SB list, got 2 events eventually this year.

  5. #965
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    There are far more benefits to skating in GP than competing in the final:

    *World Standings points, which affect championship start orders
    *Level feedback from ISU technical panels
    *Feedback from international judges, which can show the skater's Fed how the skater is seen outside his or her own country, for better or worse
    *A shot at some prize money
    *Experience
    *Travel expenses paid to a competition
    *Recognition
    *Meeting minimum GP and championship minimum TES, so that the skater's Fed doesn't have to send him/her to a senior B on their dime, which might not happen. (Or for Feds who let the skater pay, saving the skater the cost.)
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  6. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Places are limited because the resources are limited. If you want two spots, you have to earn them.
    ...and you have to hope the host country feels like inviting you.

    It would be great if more skaters got two spots, but instead they've reduced the size of the field in recent years. And wasn't the reason for that because they wanted only the best skaters there? So it makes a ton of sense for Mirai to get repeatedly passed up for much lower ranked skaters.

  7. #967
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    I just think the ISU needs to rework the rules so rankings actually matter (I mean, they should matter for more than just starting orders, right?) in GP alternate selection.

  8. #968
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    ...and you have to hope the host country feels like inviting you.

    It would be great if more skaters got two spots, but instead they've reduced the size of the field in recent years. And wasn't the reason for that because they wanted only the best skaters there? So it makes a ton of sense for Mirai to get repeatedly passed up for much lower ranked skaters.
    Yes, why did US not pick Mirai for a host pick, that is truly unacceptable... US tried maximise their chances by hoping Mirai will get picked by other countries because of her ranking, though this wasn't guaranteed. This was their game plan increase the number of americans with 2 spots, by passing Mirai over with other lower ranked entrants from US. Other countries are reducing the challenge to their favourites, since they have an option to do this and is not illegal. So part of the fault is with USFSA, not with other countries.

  9. #969
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    ...and you have to hope the host country feels like inviting you.

    It would be great if more skaters got two spots, but instead they've reduced the size of the field in recent years. And wasn't the reason for that because they wanted only the best skaters there? So it makes a ton of sense for Mirai to get repeatedly passed up for much lower ranked skaters.
    More spots don't necessarily mean more skaters with two. It could mean more skaters with one and a chance at a GP.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  10. #970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    Yes, why did US not pick Mirai for a host pick, that is truly unacceptable... US tried maximise their chances by hoping Mirai will get picked by other countries because of her ranking, though this wasn't guaranteed. This was their game plan increase the number of americans with 2 spots, by passing Mirai over with other lower ranked entrants from US. Other countries are reducing the challenge to their favourites, since they have an option to do this and is not illegal. So part of the fault is with USFSA, not with other countries.
    This is correct. USFSA is to blame. They were trying to play the numbers and other feds are not playing it with them. If they wanted Mirai to have two spots she would be at Skate America and somewhere else.

  11. #971
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    If you go back a;d read the GP Announcement, there was every reason to believe that Top 24 PB skaters would be given a second (where just one wasn't requested) before any non-host pick out of the Top 24 was chosen.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  12. #972
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    Mirai knew she wasn't going to worlds in 2011 and gave one of her best performances at the 4CC. Maybe not worrying about the GPF will ignite her to deliver in her one event and set the stage for nationals and worlds

    Crossing my fingers this is the right thread now

  13. #973
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    I believe it isn't MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE so much as extremely unlikely for a skater with just one GP event to qualify for GPF.

    If Nagasu wins her only event (15), then 2 other skaters win both their events (30 each), 1 skater wins the gold and silver at her event (28), 2 other skaters win silver at both their events (26 each), then as long as the remaining silver medallist, the 6 bronze medallists and other top 5 finishers don't place top 5 in their other event / do not have another event, it isn't impossible for Nagasu to hang onto 6th on the GPF list, right? [I can think of a million variations to this scenario that would also work]

  14. #974

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    Yes, why did US not pick Mirai for a host pick, that is truly unacceptable... US tried maximise their chances by hoping Mirai will get picked by other countries because of her ranking, though this wasn't guaranteed. This was their game plan increase the number of americans with 2 spots, by passing Mirai over with other lower ranked entrants from US. Other countries are reducing the challenge to their favourites, since they have an option to do this and is not illegal. So part of the fault is with USFSA, not with other countries.
    Erm, not that I am a huge fan of Flatt or Gao (and I much prefer Mirai), but they did finish ahead of her at Nationals this past year. Its not as if they invited the 10th place finisher from Sectionals ahead of her. That said, there needs to be some kind of standard whereby if you aren't in decent competition shape a few weeks before your event, you get pulled and replaced. I'm really hoping there was some monitoring session recently where Rachael looked significantly better than Skate St. Moritz. If she's just going to single and double everything at SA, there is no point to her being there. And I kinda hope, if she doesn't get picked for a 2nd, Mirai goes out there and wins her GP event with no 2nd event just to show the ISU how jacked up their rules are. And for good measure, maybe Kaetlyn O. can win her only event too.

  15. #975
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    But I wonder why the situation for men and ladies are different: Dornbush started with 2 spots because of his INTERNATIONAL results last season, and this was at the expense of Armin who rocked nationally but stunk internationally last seasib.

    Somehow Nagasu who had the better international results (last season like Dornbush) was passed over in favour of Zawadzki who, like Armin, rocked nationally but stunk internationally last season.

    What's the deal there?

  16. #976
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    Dornbush wasn't assigned to Skate America, though: he was chosen by the RUS and JPN Federations in the initial selections. Did USFS stop any other country from choosing Nagasu?

    Zawadzki was #25 on last year's Season's Best list, and it was very likely that, under most circumstances, she would have had a great shot for a second off the alternates list. However, it seemed like a guaranteed second spot for Nagasu by the following wording in 7.6 Replacements section of the GP announcement, which seemed surer than Zawadzi having placed just outside the Top 24:

    The second bullet point after split couples on the alternates list is:

    "*Skaters in proper order of top 24 Season's Best would be next"

    and "The alternate list needs to be worked through in ranking order for the top 24 ranked skaters/couples according to their Season's Best."
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  17. #977
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    Cup of China: Ying ZHANG(CHN) IN
    Trophée Bompard: Jenna MCCORKELL(GBR) IN

    http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/pa...v-list,00.html

  18. #978

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    Mirai...

  19. #979

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    the board is going to explode...

    I feel extremely sorry for Mirai, but it's nice to see a veteran Jenna on the roster!

  20. #980

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    WTH... ((Mirai))

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