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  1. #41
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    I think the reference to Volosozhar was that Gorshkov was happy for the Russian Federation to take a skater who would win medals, but isn't willing to give (release) a skater who might be competition for his number #2 and #3 (and might help another country in the team competition).
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I think the reference to Volosozhar was that Gorshkov was happy for the Russian Federation to take a skater who would win medals, but isn't willing to give (release) a skater who might be competition for his number #2 and #3 (and might help another country in the team competition).
    I think her country of choice could also be an issue, didn't France block Jerome Blanchard effort to skate with Valeria Vorobieva for Russia. I think he had to sit out two years to get the eligibility to represent for Russia, by that time the partnership had dissolved. I can't see Russians releasing her anytime soon especially if they think she and Kocon could very likely turn out to be a medal treat for France in the future(which I think they are). Russians are also trying to stop them from gaining experience as well as reputation from judges leading up to 2018 games. Remember, Europeans will be without top two K/S, V/T and the Germans S/S from 2015 onwards. Any reasonably good performance in Olympics year will set them up well for 2015-2018 quad, and by not releasing her the team will have a disadvantage even against the other russian teams.

  3. #43
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    All of that is true, Domshabfan.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    \At the same time, she looks hysterical, impulsive, and ready to give up the fatherland, and Pavlova is on record as saying she tried to talk to Iliushenchkina about her eating, but she couldn't do anything if her skater was in denial and resisted. (I hope LI can contact Suzuki.)
    Back up a second...wasn't it Pavlova who called her "overweight" in the first place?

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    Back up a second...wasn't it Pavlova who called her "overweight" in the first place?
    yes, she did.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I also think it's disingenuous to refer to her new partner as "someone she found on the internet." It's not like he's some random guy no one has ever heard of. So they connected via email instead of a phone call. That's not so unusual in this day and age.
    Yep that choice of words is also very telling.

    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    Back up a second...wasn't it Pavlova who called her "overweight" in the first place?
    And then she ended up looking extremely emaciated and stopped landing her jumps as well as started to have problems with their throw jumps...

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    This was a very clever move on Gorshkov's part. If released publicly from Iliushenchkina's side,, the diaries could have been explosive and there could have been calls to investigate Pavlova's rink and to release Iliushechkina immediately.

    This way, he took the initiative and could spin it the way he wanted, and he took a page out of the Cinquanta SLC playbook and came up with a proactive solution that brushes aside serious issues and makes the Russian Fed looked concerned and generous: they will give her a new partner -- although I'd love to know exactly who this world-class skater they've been hiding is -- and send her to Moskvina, who knows how to deal with traumatized female pairs skaters. At the same time, she looks hysterical, impulsive, and ready to give up the fatherland, and Pavlova is on record as saying she tried to talk to Iliushenchkina about her eating, but she couldn't do anything if her skater was in denial and resisted. (I hope LI can contact Suzuki.)

    Very clever damage control.
    It's interesting. If my boss mistreated me and I could prove it (let's say, I had a log of all different incidents including names of people who witnessed it), I would think it is not only the boss who would be responsible, but also the whole organisation. In Ljubov situation, it appears that Pavlova and Nodari did not treat her well and I would think it is also Russian Federation who should be responsible. So giving her another partner and coach seems to me like swiping it under the carpet. Not good enough. They have to try harder than that!

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    If the Russian Fed's goal is to win medals (which it quite clearly is), then shorting Iliuscheskina by providing her with a sub-par partner would not further their objectives. She is a very talented ladies pairs skater, so it would behoove them to find her a suitable partner (assuming they have one). And Moskvina is not known for just passing the time idly, so I can't imagine that their goal in sending Lubov to Moskvina is to effectively put her out to pasture.
    I don't think they would give her sub-par partner on purpose, but the bottom line is that there probably isn't that many good male partners available, so she would probably end up on much lower level. (just ask Mukhortova how easy it is to get a decent male partner when you suddenly need one!)

    You were asking what would Russia have to gain by trying to hold Iliuscheskina back within Russia. They would have nothing to gain, but also nothing to loose. They could, for example, mark her and her partner harsher at their Russian competitions (e.g. at the Russian nationals) and that would mean that she would never have a chance to start at any proper international competition. There is such a depth in Russian pairs, that they don't really mind who they send to international competition as the third pair. For example, this year they sent to Europeans their number 1, 3 and 4 (Kavaguti and Smirnov couldn't go because of Smirnov's appendix operation) and their number 4 pair (Stolbova - Klimov) managed to win bronze medal at the Europeans. Imagine that Ljubov and her partner somehow managed to get third at their nationals (or fourth but one of the pair before them couldn't go). It would be within their Federation's power not to send them for any reason. The Federation would have nothing to loose, because the chances are that even the pair who placed after them would do well at Europeans.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I think the reference to Volosozhar was that Gorshkov was happy for the Russian Federation to take a skater who would win medals, but isn't willing to give (release) a skater who might be competition for his number #2 and #3 (and might help another country in the team competition).
    Yes, that is exactly what I meant.

  10. #50

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    Nikolai Velikov (together with Liudmila Velikova coached world champions in pairs skating Evgenia Shishkova/Vadim Naumov, Maria Petrova/Alexei Tikhonov): Iliushechkina should be allowed to skate for France

    http://www.rsport.ru/figure_skating/...598172577.html

    In this situation, I'm team Iliushechkina, - said Velikov by phone to R-Sport's corrspondent. - An athlete's carrier is very short, five times shorter than anyone else's. And I think, let her skate. She should be given the opportunity to realize her potential. To stand in her way is not nice.
    Iliushechkina won't be able to do anything anyway, but whether she medals at the Olympics or not, they shouldn't throw sand in her wheels. RFSF must show kindness, warmth, decency. For me, Iliushechkina is a child who wants to achieve something. Who is ready to starve to correct her shape. She is prone to be overweight, and there are legends about methods she uses to lose weight. They should respect her and not put obstacles in her way.
    Velikov says that he understands that his personal opinion will be out of line:
    We are not living behind the Iron Curtain anymore. All these things are completely wrong.
    Last edited by quiqie; 05-21-2012 at 04:15 PM.

  11. #51

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    Wow, that's really decent thing to do. Even though Velikov isn't the one who will make decision, the fact that he spoke up for her is kind of him.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    Back up a second...wasn't it Pavlova who called her "overweight" in the first place?
    Apparently, but then when she started getting painfully thin, Pavlova said she'd talked to her, but she wouldn't listen.

    Velikov.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  13. #53
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    It was nice of Velikov to speak up for her (and really others who may be in her situation) she really should have the opportunity to skate anywhere while she can.

    I would hate to see a talent like her and Maria M. go to waste.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    It's clearly an attempt to silence her.

    They'd give her some mediocre (for Russian standards) partner and one B-International at best and she'd probably never make the National team again.

    Given how inconsistent both Popova/Massot and James/Cipres seem to be, I can imagine her winning French Nationals if she manages to land her jumps.
    Lubov is a very talented skater. Why would the RSF give her a subpar partner AND send her to Moskvina who is one of the best coaches ever? I am sure the RSF wants to win OGMs and not see their skaters go to other countries and win OGMs for them, the way it happened with Anissina.

    They may have been unaware of what was going on (they can only pay attention to so many skaters, and I&M were not exactly a top pair, although they could have been by 2018; they were clearly busy promoting their medal contenders for Sochi). It is possible that nobody knew of the seriousness of the problems and they only found out when it was too late. Lubov had already quit the rink and found another partner.

    I don't blame the RSF for not wanting to release her to another country. Most countries will try to hold on to their talented skaters as long as they can. France did not release Blanchard (IIRC) to Russia immediately, so you can't expect Russia to release Lubov immediately. Their goal is to win medals for Russia, and not just be 'nice'. Politics are very much a part of sports at the hightest level, and that applies to all countries. Russia is not an evil empire.

    Lubov may be happy to be in a different environment, and could have a great career in the future, but it has to be seen. I would not pass judgment on her coach or former partner without knowing what really happened.

    When Elena Berezhnaya had problems, she was lucky to be in Moskvina's group, where she had some form of support, and even then the problems were not resolved before things got much worse for her. These skaters are in challenging, difficult situations and only the strongest survive. May be this experience will make Lubov stronger as a person.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Lubov is a very talented skater. Why would the RSF give her a subpar partner AND send her to Moskvina who is one of the best coaches ever? I am sure the RSF wants to win OGMs and not see their skaters go to other countries and win OGMs for them, the way it happened with Anissina.
    I don't think anyone suggested that they would give her sub par partner on purpose. It is just not as easy to find a decent male partner within one country. If it was easy, Mukhortova would have a partner from Russia.

  16. #56
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    Also interesting is Gorshkov mentioning that the letter she sent was written in English positioning her as "the other", unpatriotic, etc.

    I assume the reason she's done that is so that a copy could have been sent to the ISU?

  17. #57
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    It would be so nice if politics and egos didn't amount to one iota in figure skating. In an ideal world, if Lyubov Ilyushechkina felt that her skating (and perhaps personal) needs would be better met in another country, Russia would release her and let her get on with her life and career. But this isn't an ideal world, and politics and egos are as much a part of the sport of figure skating as quadruple-triple combinations, the kiss and cry section, and illegal costume modifications.

  18. #58
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    poor Lioubov she obviously love skating as she is willing to skate in anotehr country, they should just release her and I ahve lost all my trust in Pavlova, i was so wrong

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDSSF View Post
    It would be so nice if politics and egos didn't amount to one iota in figure skating. In an ideal world, if Lyubov Ilyushechkina felt that her skating (and perhaps personal) needs would be better met in another country, Russia would release her and let her get on with her life and career. But this isn't an ideal world, and politics and egos are as much a part of the sport of figure skating as quadruple-triple combinations, the kiss and cry section, and illegal costume modifications.
    Egos and politics are part of the world we live in. They are not limited to figure skating. We don't live in an ideal world. Without knowing the whole situation, I am not willing to put ALL the blame on the other party (I assume that's Pavlova, based on what's appeared here).

    There are almost always ego conflicts. Eventually I believe Lubov will be able to skate for whatever country she wants, but I can understand why the RSF would be upset when one of their skaters tells them (indirectly) that she absolutely hates their country- the one she grew up in- and she would not even write to them in Russian, and would not consider any offers by them. It's going to take some time for the parties to digest everything and come to a peaceful resolution. Everyone wants an instantaneous solution to complex human issues.

  20. #60

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    Out of all of this, I hope that Lubov gets a worthy, tall/strong and handsome partner, no matter what his nationality. Maisuradze is a mess, sorry to say.

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