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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    At what event did Katarima skate to "Summertime"?
    1994 Fox Rock N Roll Championships and 1995 Skates of Gold II are two that I know of.

    ETA: Also 1995 World Team Championships and 1995 Greatest Hits on Ice.
    Last edited by pollyanna; 05-23-2012 at 05:36 PM.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    At what event did Katarima skate to "Summertime"?
    I don't remember. I saw her skate to that just once.

    I am still looking for many of her programs on YT, but can't find them. I really liked her 1988 Oly exhibitions ('I am what I am' and the other one skated to Michael Jackson).

    I too am surprised that so many on this board dislike her. However, I don't think that is representative of the sentiment in N.America. Even though Kat was not as strong technically (jumps) as some other skaters, most other skaters of her generation were not that strong either. If you take out Midori, Liz Manley, and Elaine Zayak (Tiffany Chin before her injuries), there were not many skaters that did difficult jumps. Debi Thomas was considered very athletic, but she always struggled with the 3 loop, and her 3t-3t was not that consistent. So the difference was not that great.

    She had a great audience connection, and she knew her limits. She always used her strengths to the fullest and came out a winner. I even enjoyed her eligible programs, not just the pro routines. Oddly I never became her fan in the true sense, but I enjoyed watching many of her performances.

    I am still looking for her 'Lemon tree' pro routine which is one of my favorites. I have all the programs I listed on VHS tapes, but I can't figure out how to put them on YT.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    When I look back on the 80s and see all the titles Witt amassed, I'm still kind of shocked. She wasn't really ever the best skater at an event, the American dolls always just seemed to fail to deliver. In Sarajevo, Sumners and Chin were infinitely better skaters and performers than Witt. But at the time Witt had 'the face'. Her lurching crossovers, the Mueller bad choreo, it was a testament to her face that she overcame her bad skating.

    The 80s were strange. If I had it my way, Caryn Kadavy would have skated cleanly at every worlds and probably won a couple of them. Caryn had beauty, grace, dance ability and triples. Too bad Carlo never gave her that meme. Instead we knew that the US girls would bomb and Witt would do just enough to win. And hey, a win is a win, not knocking Witt. At least Witt went out with Carmen, an iconic moment in skating.
    While, I agree with some of your points (I am not a huge Kadavy fan) in 84 it wasn't about Katarina's pretty face. It was Tiffany Chin's poor showing in figures (which maybe political) and Roz's inability to land her last double axel. She couldn't put it together, popped jumps, and missed a jump she could do in her sleep. The Gold was Roz's to lose and she did. Kat did her job. It's not like she fell of over the place and won on good looks. It was a testament to her competitiveness and consistency that she overcame some poor core quality in her skating. Same in 1988. Obviously Liz Manley stole the show. If Debi Thomas could have pulled it together to get second Kat's gold wouldn't have happened. The Americans were favored and bombed. IMO, as an American that is not a KW fan, she seized her oppurtunities and talking about her pretty face, charisma, and good body isn't gone take away her gold medals.

    How many better quality skaters have lost their chance for gold because they didn't skate their best (Michelle, Sasha, Midori in 1992, Kurt Browning, the list goes on and on....)

  4. #84

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    The other programs I really liked of hers was "Rescue me" by Bell Book and Candle and I loved "The Case Continues". Great music choices. She really knew how to capture the mood and flavour of the music. And she skates like a woman, not a girl.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Eta: I meant her 80s packaging was "tacky". As many have stated, by 94 we loved her packaging. She certainly never had a problem working in NA and getting ads, pr, etc...
    Looking back on YT, I don't really think KW was all THAT tacky from 1984-88. Yeah, the early years was just typical Mueller choreo in Gaby Seyfert dresses, so unfortunate. But 84 sp and lp weren't THAT bad, 85 was just a repeat, 86 and 87 were WSS, and then Carmen. None that I would call tacky. For edging, line, and SS I preferred others greatly.

    I think she started getting tacky when she began slipping into those skin tight full body catsuits, which were NEVER flattering on her. That was in the early 90s. She really tried to play sex kitten, but by then her face had filled out and hardened, and her body just didn't need to be near any catsuit.
    I will not be ignored! -Me

  6. #86

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    Her 1988 SP was pretty tacky as were parts of Carmen. I always thought her death pose at the end looked laborious and was tacky.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  7. #87
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    Obviously some of you forget the 87 Worlds where all the American girls skated the best they could have, especialy in the long program, and Witt still won. In fact at every Worlds from 85-87 numerous top skaters skated their best performances and she won the long program at each. Her 2 Olympic long programs were not her best ever performances either, it wasnt just her competitors.

    Sumners imparticular is WAY overrated. The only reason she won the 83 Worlds was Witt bombed the figures, Zayak was injured and pulled out, and the field overall wasnt that competitive. Witt was always superior to Sumners, Sumners never once beat Witt in a combined free skating. Up until defending her National title in 1983 by outskating reigning World Champion Elaine Zayak, Sumners was basically a journeywomen who had lucked into a National title (1982) through others bombing. In the year of her World title Sumners lost Skate Canada to Vikki De Vries and Wegelius, and lost NHK to Katarina Witt. In the Olympic year she lost at an event to Sandra Dubravcik, and at Nationals she lost the short and long programs to Tiffany Chin. At her first Worlds as National Champion she placed 6th. She was the furthest thing imaginable from a dominant skater. Sumners only did 2 long programs her whole career that would have won the 84 Olympic Gold, her 83 Nationals LP, although I am not sure on that as she fell and wasnt there a required .1 deduction for falling then, and her 83 Worlds LP. Funny for all the talk in this thread of Witt being an unathletic skater, from 1981-1985 she was actually by far one of the most athletic skaters, and she was far more athletic and a stronger jumper when they competed head to head than Sumners ever was. Sumners didnt even once complete a clean short program with a triple toe combination included (well maybe 83 Nationals, I didnt see the shorts there, but that would be the only one), and she never completed a long program with more than 3 triples landed, or anything harder than a triple salchow attempted. Sumners not only had consistency problems with the triple toe and triple salchow, which the much more athletic Witt never had problems with, but even with the double axel which she often missed.

    Thomas was never a better skater potentially until 1988 where for the first time a real technical gap appeared between her and Witt, and her artistry was much improved. Before that her only way of beating Witt was if Witt made mistakes like at the 86 Worlds (or if she got too far behind in figures).
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 05-24-2012 at 05:00 AM.

  8. #88
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    I'm sorry Vikki De Vries' potential wasn't realised.

    She looked great at Skate Canada '82, and could have given Sumners a run for her money at Worlds in 1983 if she hadn't bombed at Nationals.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUPMvPB4jI
    Last edited by essence_of_soy; 05-24-2012 at 06:15 AM.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    Looking back on YT, I don't really think KW was all THAT tacky from 1984-88.
    On occasion, she was.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sagx3D02vM

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    I'm sorry Vikki De Vries' potential wasn't realised.

    She looked great at Skate Canada '82, and could have given Sumners a run for her money at Worlds in 1983 if she hadn't bombed at Nationals.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUPMvPB4jI
    It was so sad how her career was building momentum then fizzled out, not even able to try for the Olympic team due to an injury in 1984. I really though she was on her way to being a major star heading into Sarajevo. She was very talented, and I preferred her skating to Sumners who was like the bland pretty princess who couldnt jump or spin that well. There is also irony in names like Sumners or Trenary coming up so frequently in a thread where it is mentioned Witt benefited in scores from her physical attractiveness.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    At what event did Katarima skate to "Summertime"?
    At 1995 NWML World Team Championships

    http://www.goldenskate.com/figure-sk...championships/

    1995 NWML World Team Championships
    October 20, 1995 ~ Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    1. Europe
    Katarina Witt, Summertime, I Belong to Me
    Jozef Sabovcik, Desperado, Trapped
    Radka Kovarikova & Rene Novotny , Romeo and Juliet, All I Ask of You
    Jayne Torvill & Christopher Dean , Bridge Over Troubled Water, Cecilia

    2. United States
    Kristi Yamaguchi, Reflections of Passion, Heartbreak Hotel
    Paul Wylie, Carmina Burana, This is the Moment
    Calla Urbanski & Rocky Marval, Hell’s Bells/Black Moon/Cirque du Soleil, The Impossible Dream
    Susie Wynne & Russ Witherby, Bei Mir Bist du Schoen, Echoes of Ireland

    3. Russia
    Anna Kondrashova, Willkommen, ?
    Aleksandr Fadeev, Hommagge a Piazzolla, Bohemian Rhapsody
    Elena Bechke & Denis Petrov, When You Tell Me That You Love Me, Spartacus
    Maya Usova & Alexander Zhulin, Tango, L’oiseau de Feu

    4. Canada
    Karen Preston, The Seaboy Blues, The Wind that Shakes the Barley
    Kurt Browning, Don’t Let the Sun Go Down On Me, Masks and Morning Dance
    Isabelle Brasseur & Lloyd Eisler, Welcome to My World, Copacabana
    Michelle McDonald & Martin Smith, I Wanna Fall in Love

  12. #92
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    Even though she wasn't the most consistent skater, I liked Jill Frost as well. She had a very peppy, athletic style, like an American hybrid of Kay Thomson and Liz Manley.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    Even though she wasn't the most consistent skater, I liked Jill Frost as well. She had a very peppy, athletic style, like an American hybrid of Kay Thomson and Liz Manley.
    It sucked she had to miss the 84 Worlds due to the blunder of U.S officials. That would have been her only realistic chance to make it to Worlds, as she was already pushed aside by Generation Next by next year.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    It sucked she had to miss the 84 Worlds due to the blunder of U.S officials. That would have been her only realistic chance to make it to Worlds, as she was already pushed aside by Generation Next by next year.
    Urgh, I know. Claire Ferguson had no excuses for that oversight.

    A shame really, b/c Katherine Adams was a good skater too.

    You can see a lot of Kristi Yamaguchi's style in her. (Not surprising, considering that Christy Ness was Adams' coach).

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    The other programs I really liked of hers was "Rescue me" by Bell Book and Candle and I loved "The Case Continues". Great music choices. She really knew how to capture the mood and flavour of the music. And she skates like a woman, not a girl.
    I so loved those two programs !.
    Did you see her skate to "Rescue Me" at Summer Night On Ice?.
    Also, "The Case Continues" was an amazing & original program. I remember watching her skate to that at Kisses On Ice. She always looks like she is having as much fun as the people watching.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Her 1988 SP was pretty tacky as were parts of Carmen. I always thought her death pose at the end looked laborious and was tacky.
    Crack is whack dude.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
    JoJo Starbuck was not impressed!
    vivika, thank you.

    Her 1988 SP was pretty tacky.
    Some judges thought so, too.
    She was made to add at least the "appearance" of a skirt to her costume after Europeans; before the Olympic SP.
    Last edited by skatesindreams; 05-24-2012 at 04:30 PM. Reason: to add comment

  18. #98
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    I think that because i was born in 81 and really only knew her as a professional skater, I always respected her accomplishments but never got it. My favorite program of hers was Lemon Tree. Anyway, its sort of how someone 10 years younger than me has a hard time understanding the whole "duh Michelle Kwan was the best skater ever" thing even though she did not have the most demanding repertoire out there.

    I do however think that Witt is one of the most physically beautiful women that the sport evere saw and she's still super hot even now.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Obviously some of you forget the 87 Worlds where all the American girls skated the best they could have, especialy in the long program, and Witt still won.
    How can I forget something that never happened? All 3 US ladies made errors, and Witt, for the first and last time in her career it seemed, had a clean LP.

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by PashaFan View Post
    I so loved those two programs !.
    Did you see her skate to "Rescue Me" at Summer Night On Ice?.
    Also, "The Case Continues" was an amazing & original program. I remember watching her skate to that at Kisses On Ice. She always looks like she is having as much fun as the people watching.
    I did see her skate to Rescue Me in that show you have mentioned. Someone I know brought the CD after they saw that number which they gave me a copy of.

    They were good shows too. Lots of good programs.

    If those clips aren't on Youtube maybe I should see if I can find them and post them. Not sure if I have the shows on video or DVD.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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