U.S. Men 2012-13 pre-season news & updates

[Sylvia]

Is there a rule for International Senior B's (ex - Nebelhorn, Finlandia, Ondrej Nepela) as to how many slots a particular country has? Also, Is Golden Spin still in existence?

Yes (as published in the respective competition announcements) and yes (Dec. 13-16, 2012). ETA: See this excerpt re. entry numbers from the Salt Lake City announcement, for example: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...7&postcount=35

USFS' International Assignments page lists the following 5 Senior B competitions: Salt Lake City (Sept. 13-16), Nebelhorn (Sept. 27-29), Finlandia (Oct. 4-7), Cup of Nice (Oct. 24-28), and Ice Challenge in Graz, AUT (Nov. 6-11).

I hope the USFSA is smart enough to utilize all its slots for every single Senior B competition this Fall. We have way too many men that need a chance!

If only there could be an unlimited budget! Last year USFS utilized 7 slots and 6 different men were sent out (2 to Nebelhorn, 2 to Nepela, 1 to Finlandia, 1 to Cup of Nice, and 1 to Ice Challenge).

[Ziggy]

Is there a rule for International Senior B's (ex - Nebelhorn, Finlandia, Ondrej Nepela) as to how many slots a particular country has? Also, Is Golden Spin still in existence?

Most competitions allow each federation to send two skaters per discipline.

If only there could be an unlimited budget! Last year USFS utilized 7 slots and 6 different men were sent out (2 to Nebelhorn, 2 to Nepela, 1 to Finlandia, 1 to Cup of Nice, and 1 to Ice Challenge).

Well, as we know there is a very limited budget.

But what is completely and utterly incomprehensible to me is why USFS doesn't first assign skaters based on their budget and then open up slots for everybody else who can pay their own expenses?

You could say 'it creates an unfair advantage for those who are more wealthy' but well they already have it, being able to hire the best specialists and being flown by helicopter to their practices.

[zaphyre14]

It is my understanding that skaters assigned to B internationals already pay all - or at least most - of their expenses to these competitions. So part of the reason some slots go unfilled may be that USFS has run out of qualified skaters who can afford the trip.

[Sylvia]

AFAIK, USFS still covers all Senior B expenses for the skaters and coaches (except for whatever coaches might charge for lost wages at home, etc.).

Ziggy, I believe the idea been discussed within USFS in the past but doesn't seem to have enough support.

[olympic]

Yes (as published in the respective competition announcements) and yes (Dec. 13-16, 2012). ETA: See this excerpt re. entry numbers from the Salt Lake City announcement, for example: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...7&postcount=35

USFS' International Assignments page lists the following 5 Senior B competitions: Salt Lake City (Sept. 13-16), Nebelhorn (Sept. 27-29), Finlandia (Oct. 4-7), Cup of Nice (Oct. 24-28), and Ice Challenge in Graz, AUT (Nov. 6-11).


If only there could be an unlimited budget! Last year USFS utilized 7 slots and 6 different men were sent out (2 to Nebelhorn, 2 to Nepela, 1 to Finlandia, 1 to Cup of Nice, and 1 to Ice Challenge).

Does the fact that the USFS page does not list Ondrej Nepela and Golden Spin mean that US skaters will not attend those competitions?

[2sk8]

Most competitions allow each federation to send two skaters per discipline.



Well, as we know there is a very limited budget.

But what is completely and utterly incomprehensible to me is why USFS doesn't first assign skaters based on their budget and then open up slots for everybody else who can pay their own expenses?

You could say 'it creates an unfair advantage for those who are more wealthy' but well they already have it, being able to hire the best specialists and being flown by helicopter to their practices.

Yes, I believe this is what they should do - sorry, but if you are already paying for skating, you are not "poor". Most any skater offered the chance to go would find a way - there are sponsors (private too) for such things & the cost of an event is relatively small in the big picture of training for years.

The opportunities for skaters should not be based on a federations limited budget.

unfortunately, USFS goes strongly in the other direction - skaters are not permitted to attend any event on the ISU calendar that USFS does not assign skaters too. So, generally - yes - if the ISU event like Golden Spin is not on USFS' calendar, a US skater can't go even if they are willing to pay for themselves.

[jlai]

Hmmm, so if I am a borderline skater who barely makes out of regionals, should I be able to pay my way to a
sr B event around sectionals time, thus earning a possible bye? Def something that needs thinking

[2sk8]

Actually, my comment was broader than a Senior B for purposes of getting a bye - and your concern is pretty easily dealt with by rule or implementation of current policy so tht wouldn't be the case, as that really wouldn't be fair. However, why preclude skaters from those other opportunities. See:

http://www.usfigureskating.org/Athletes.asp?id=320
("Skaters cannot compete in any event, even representing their home club, that is on the ISU calendar. ")

There are many events on the ISU calendar that USFS does not send skaters to, many at times other than around Sectionals. See:

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/pa...v-list,00.html

[jlai]

There may be other complications. Say, a skater goes to an intl, and gets in trouble or something ala that Russian skater at SA (what is his name? Slips my mind now). What hold will USFS have on him or her if the fed has never really officially sent the skater?

I can think of other complications too. This is just the first that jumped to mind

[Ziggy]

Does the fact that the USFS page does not list Ondrej Nepela and Golden Spin mean that US skaters will not attend those competitions?

Yes.

Or any other international competitions for that matter.

Hmmm, so if I am a borderline skater who barely makes out of regionals, should I be able to pay my way to a
sr B event around sectionals time, thus earning a possible bye? Def something that needs thinking

No. That obviously shouldn't be allowed.

There may be other complications. Say, a skater goes to an intl, and gets in trouble or something ala that Russian skater at SA (what is his name? Slips my mind now). What hold will USFS have on him or her if the fed has never really officially sent the skater?

I can think of other complications too. This is just the first that jumped to mind

USFS would be officially sending the skater. Skaters who compete at ISU sanctioned international competitions always represent their respective national federations.

[2sk8]

Lutai...but of course he was assigned by his federation, and the laws of the jurisdiction he - or any other non-diplomat - is in applied, so I'm not sure how that is a "complication" that is really different under these circumstances. In any case, there are always "complications" in any situation. My opinion is that international opportunities should be maximized for the ATHLETES as they are often positive developmentally. "Complications" should be addressed as part of the process, not used as a basis for denying the athletes such opportunities, the way this policy does.

Anyway, it is of course just my opinion, and now getting a bit off-topic for this thread, so I'll leave it at that in this thread.

[Sk8fun]

Grant Hochstein tweeted a few hours ago:

"Stood up on my very first quad toe today."

[olympic]

Grant Hochstein tweeted a few hours ago:

"Stood up on my very first quad toe today."

'kay. Next homework assignment - do it in a competition

[misskarne]

Grant Hochstein tweeted a few hours ago:

"Stood up on my very first quad toe today."

Awww, congrats for him!

[LilJen]

Grant Hochstein tweeted a few hours ago:

"Stood up on my very first quad toe today."

That's gotta feel AMAZING!

[olympic]

Bump.

I by pure coincidence caught Dornbush's SP @ Golden West late last night on Livestream. Not so good: 4t - splat; 3x -hand down; 3z- step out (no combo), but the spins and in-betweens looked really good. He got a score of 70+ pts.

The camera trained on him and Tammy for a good 2-3 minutes afterwards. She looked like she was giving him a what-for and he looked pretty upset.

Sigh

At least I have Josh's performances from Lake Placid

[legjumper]

Reposting from the Golden West thread:

I was at the competition last night and took a few videos of the senior men. It was a bad competition for jumps for Doug Razzano and Ricky Dornbush. Neither of them had a good warm-up (no clean quads or triple axels, IIRC), and unfortunately that carried over to the competition.

Razzano:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk6lXmnn_UU

Dornbush:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JzHay0QoBs

Rabbitt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3I7Ux73b5s

[Marco]

I don't hate Dornbush's program even though I love the song. He was moving very well. Wonderful spins. Although - I forget - can a short program combination spin have a fly in the change of foot?

[gkelly]

I don't hate Dornbush's program even though I love the song. He was moving very well. Wonderful spins. Although - I forget - can a short program combination spin have a fly in the change of foot?

A change of foot executed by jump is a feature. A jump within a spin without changing feet is also a feature. These do not turn a spin into a flying spin, and yes they are allowed in the short program.

Entering the spin with a fly at the very beginning makes it a flying spin with an F at the beginning of the code. That is not allowed for either of the other two short program spins besides the required flying spin element (one position, no change of foot).

[Marco]

Thanks gkelly!