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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    I think Evan did gp in the 04-5 season
    Yes, Lysacek was 5th at both Skate America and Cup of Russia in the fall of 2004.

    Dornbush won the JGP Final in December 2010 and placed 2nd in Senior at 2011 Nationals/made the World team in his second attempt, so he didn't suffer for having skated as a junior internationally earlier in the season. He brought it at Nationals, and that's usually what U.S. skaters have to do in order to make the World (or Olympic) team.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  2. #22
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    The way I see it, if Josh and Jason moved up, they'd be looking at:

    Best Case Scenario: 2 GPs, 4CC, and Worlds
    (I highly doubt either would qualify for GPF first year out and further, they might have to WIN nationals, or at least be top 2, to get 4CC AND Worlds, 4CC they could probably get with a 3rd or 4th place finish)

    Worst Case Scenario: 1 GP

    By staying junior

    Best Case Scenario: 2 JGPs, JGPF, 4CC, Worlds

    Worst Case Scenario: 2 JGPs, JW
    (Likely, of course, should either bomb his 1st JGP, there's a chance he might not get a 2nd, but there aren't that many JGP eligible men this season so I sort of doubt they'd only get 1 JGP considering their results last season. JW is also not certain but their main competition is Chen, Choate, and Yostanto, and they can both qualify along with one of these guys, so in order for both to get knocked off the team, all 3 would have to skate better at Nationals and/or on the JGP which I don't think is likely).

    Josh is ready to compete on the GP but he probably doesn't want to risk just getting 1 senior GP as his only international assignment all season. He knows his SB from JW is really high and how it stacks up against the other men, I'm assuming his goal is to have a solid JGP season, make it to and medal at/win the JGPF, then try to medal at Nationals and make the World and/or 4CC teams. But, should he struggle at Nats again, this way he can at least go to JW. He saw what happened with Ricky Dornbush in 10-11 and he knows he has the goods to do the same, so might as well stay on the JGP again, try and get the 4t out in competition when there's less pressure, get to compete internationally 2 or 3 times this fall, and set himself up as a medal contender at Nationals, with a likely JW assignment as a fallback plan. Same goes for Jason who probably wants to get his 3a out in competition and knows he can probably still qualify for the JGPF if he doesn't have much success with it.

    I think maybe if they didn't change the rules regarding going to JW after having competed in senior internationals not being allowed, maybe their decisions would have been different, but both Josh and Jason have the huge advantage of their young age. This year, they were the only 2 senior men competing at nationals that were young enough for JW. Josh was 16th but got JW anyways because the next guy in line was Phillip Warren who still scored 15 points less than Josh (in the junior event, granted) despite Josh's nervy outing there. Next year, Choate will be the only additional senior man age eligible for JW (unless is Yostanto moving up?), so even assuming wunderkind Nathan Chen is a lock for the JW team, that still leaves a spot for both of them to go so long as they can beat Choate and Yostanto at Nationals (which they should be able to do easily), and that's if they don't get a better offer in the form of 4CC and/or senior worlds.

  3. #23

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    These are the 30 men currently listed in USFS' International Selection Pool (ISP):

    Received initial GP assignments (6 men):
    Jeremy Abbott: Skate America/France
    Adam Rippon: China/Japan
    Ross Miner: Canada/Japan
    Richard Dornbush: Russia/Japan
    Johnny Weir-Voronov: Russia/France
    Douglas Razzano: Skate America
    1 TBA at Skate America

    Senior B candidates (12):
    Evan Lysacek
    Armin Mahbanoozadeh S4
    Stephen Carriere S6
    Keegan Messing S7
    Max Aaron S8
    Scott Dyer S10
    Jonathan Cassar S11
    Grant Hochstein S12
    Brandon Mroz S14
    Alexander Johnson S15
    Timothy Dolensky J2
    Philip Warren J3

    JGP/ISU Junior age-eligible (12):
    Jason Brown JGPF1 /S9 / JW3 (4 JGPs + 1 Final in 2 seasons)
    Joshua Farris JGPF3 / S16 / JW2 (6 JGPs + 2 Finals in 3 seasons)
    Nathan Chen J1
    Harrison Choate J4 (1 JGP last season)
    Lukas Kaugars J5
    Jay Yostanto J7 (1 JGP last season)
    Troy Tomasello J8
    David Wang J11 (1 JGP last season)
    James Schetelich N2
    Spencer Howe N3
    Kevin Shum N4
    Shotaro Omori PC-J5 (2 JGPs last season)
    Last edited by Sylvia; 05-21-2012 at 09:44 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  4. #24
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    JGP/ISU Junior age-eligible (12):
    Jason Brown JGPF1 /S9 / JW3 (4 JGPs + 1 Final in 2 seasons)
    Joshua Farris JGPF3 / S16 / JW2 (6 JGPs + 2 Finals in 3 seasons)
    Nathan Chen J1
    Harrison Choate J4 (1 JGP)
    Lukas Kaugars J5
    Jay Yostanto J7 (1 JGP)
    Troy Tomasello J8
    David Wang J11 (1 JGP)
    James Schetelich N2
    Spencer Howe N3
    Kevin Shum N4
    Shotaro Omori PC-J5 (2 JGPs)

    Yeah see this is why Farris and Brown are likely staying junior. Apart from Chen (and even Chen considering he is so little and has no 3a yet, or well maybe he does now, who knows) none of these guys are stiff competition to steal 2nd JGPs away from them or knock them out of the running for the JGPF or the JW team. They can face off with the likes of Miner, Rippon, and Dornbush at Nationals and if they beat them there, I don't know why the USFS wouldn't send them to senior Worlds. So might as well stay junior for the fall and keep that safety net.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Johnny Weir-Voronov: Russia/France
    Wheeeeee!
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  6. #26
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    Happy that Weir is really coming back, but giving 2 events to the uncontrollable boy whose style and speaking USFS once despised when he hasn't competed in 2 years says volumes about how USFS viewed the current state of US men.

    Surprised about Lysacek. Perhaps they will test him at some senior B beforte giving him Skate America?

    How is it that Armin got 0 GP events but Dornbush got 2 and Razzano got 1? Wasn't Armin 4th at Nationals?

    If Farris and Brown stayed at the Junior GPs, they can still go to 4CCs and Worlds if they skated well enough at Nationals right?

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Happy that Weir is really coming back, but giving 2 events to the uncontrollable boy whose style and speaking USFS once despised when he hasn't competed in 2 years says volumes about how USFS viewed the current state of US men.
    He gets two events as a comeback skater, but considering the state of US men's skating, this is a good thing for the USFS. At the very least he's attention-getting.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    How is it that Armin got 0 GP events but Dornbush got 2 and Razzano got 1? Wasn't Armin 4th at Nationals?
    US Nationals don't factor into GP assignments at all, apart from maybe being a factor for host picks which are at the discretion of each federation. Dornbush got his through his World Ranking (20th), and Razzano has a higher seasons best than Armin which may be why he got one of the host picks for SA.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post

    Surprised about Lysacek. Perhaps they will test him at some senior B beforte giving him Skate America?


    If Farris and Brown stayed at the Junior GPs, they can still go to 4CCs and Worlds if they skated well enough at Nationals right?
    Or maybe Lysacek isn't coming back at all. He could have gotten 2 assignments if he wanted. I bet he won't compete this season. He already won Worlds and the Olympics and there's no chance, really, he can repeat as either now.


    And yes, Farris and Brown should still be considered for 4CC and Worlds because they skate at the senior level at Nationals. Ricky Dornbush went to Worlds in 2011 after competing on the JGP in the fall. It might make things a little tougher, but in theory they should have as good a shot as any other man competing at US nationals to make the World team.

  10. #30
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    GP does not have anything to do with US nationals but when GPs were having 12 spots each, USFsA was able to get a GP for their top 5 US national finishers. NOW thatwill change of course. So I can see why people still think top US finishers should get a gp

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    GP does not have anything to do with US nationals but when GPs were having 12 spots each, USFsA was able to get a GP for their top 5 US national finishers. NOW thatwill change of course. So I can see why people still think top US finishers should get a gp
    And I wish that they would go back to 12 spots. Does anyone know if there has been discussion of returning to the larger field?

  12. #32

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    ^ One wonders. How much has the ISU actually saved with the reduction in the number of skaters competing on the GP? I have my doubts that they'd actually do the calculations
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post

    Josh's score from JW would have placed him sixth at the last Nationals, one point behind Razzano, and ahead of such raved-about skaters as Brandon Mroz and Richard Dornbush - who, if I'm not mistaken, has a GP assignment.
    Dornbush was guaranteed one from 20 WS. Farris would have been guaranteed one if USFS had submitted his name for selection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Happy that Weir is really coming back, but giving 2 events to the uncontrollable boy whose style and speaking USFS once despised when he hasn't competed in 2 years says volumes about how USFS viewed the current state of US men.
    Like Zemgirl said, Weir was guaranteed two as a comeback skater, and USFS didn't pick him for Skate America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conga View Post
    And I wish that they would go back to 12 spots. Does anyone know if there has been discussion of returning to the larger field?
    If they wanted to compromise, they start with 12 and say that any withdrawals within X weeks of the event won't be replaced.

    Under this, last season, five of the six Men's events would have been down to 10* or 11, instead of two being down to 9, and two of six Ladies' events would have been down to 10 or 11, instead of one being down to 9.

    *In case withdrawals rose for bigger fields.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 05-22-2012 at 05:16 PM.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Happy that Weir is really coming back, but giving 2 events to the uncontrollable boy whose style and speaking USFS once despised when he hasn't competed in 2 years says volumes about how USFS viewed the current state of US men.
    It does?

    Other than putting his name into the assignment pool, the USFSA didn't do anything. The invitations came from the Russian and French Federations. And, if I'm not mistaken, he was automatically entitled to two assignments because he signed the returning-skaters agreement with the ISU, just like Miki Ando.

    Now, if he were skating at Skate America, you might have a point.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Other than putting his name into the assignment pool, the USFSA didn't do anything. The invitations came from the Russian and French Federations. And, if I'm not mistaken, he was automatically entitled to two assignments because he signed the returning-skaters agreement with the ISU, just like Miki Ando.
    The big difference is that Ando is a World champion who is coming back, but will every senior skater who is just coming back get that benefit of two GP assignments? Weir was no World or Olympic medalist as he left the competitions.

  16. #36
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    Isn't the guarantee slightly broader than that? I have some recollection (which could be incorrect) that it was broad enough to include Weir based on his World Ranking at the end of the 2009-10 season or his bronze medal at 2008 Worlds.

    Regardless, all we can say it that the USFSA submitted Weir's name. It didn't pick him for Skate America, and I doubt very much that it politicked for him instead of, say, Dornbush, who needed the politicking more than Weir did.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    The big difference is that Ando is a World champion who is coming back, but will every senior skater who is just coming back get that benefit of two GP assignments? Weir was no World or Olympic medalist as he left the competitions.
    In last year's GP announcement, comeback skaters were defined by the ISU as "Skaters/Couples who were previously seeded (placed 1 to 6 at any previous ISU World Figure Skating Championships) and subsequently did not participate in one or more competitive seasons". Weir has been a seeded skater before, so he can return to the GP circuit as a comeback skater - this year.

    To use other examples: if, say, Laura Lepisto were to decide the return to competition one day, she would be able to do two GPs as a comeback skater. If Kevin van der Perren decides he'd like to make a run at Sochi after sitting out the coming season, this provision would apply to him (he was 6th in 2008). The Kerrs and the Zaretskis could be comeback skaters (5th and 6th in 2010).You do not have to be a World Champion or an Olympic (or even World) medalist.

  18. #38
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    told you Weir has more chance of a comeback then Lysacek

  19. #39

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    New article: Rippon plans to skate like a mad man; Seibert gives skater new direction: 'It's an era, it's a cool guy'

    Cross-posting from the Music/Choreographers thread:
    Relevant FS music excerpt:
    [Choreographer Michael] Seibert came up with selections from Michael Giacchino's score, including "Life's Incredible Again" and "Saving Metroville."

    "Adam needs something more competitive, bigger; it's all sort of the same texture I felt was lacking," he said. "So I was all over musically, from [Joe] Satriani on down, and I happened to stumble on this.

    "I don't really want to use the [animated] movie title The Incredibles because we started with Mad Men, and then I found this piece of music, which is very jazz-age, a big horn section, very Don Draper-esque."
    ETA links to the 2 tracks cited in the article:
    "Life's Incredible Again": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij8Js3hyp60
    "Saving Metroville": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJikHkZ55_s
    Last edited by Sylvia; 05-23-2012 at 08:40 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  20. #40
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    Oh, that's brilliant!

    I didn't think I could love Michael Seibert any more, but <3 ^ 2:

    Seibert arrived at DSC last Thursday, and by Saturday had created the free skate's opening and several other sections, including a step sequence. As it stands, the challenging program doesn't leave much time for Rippon to rev up to his most difficult jumps; one triple Axel emerges with all the stealth of a Mad Men plot twist.

    "Triple Axel is going to be his best friend by the end of the summer," Seibert said. "He promised."
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 05-23-2012 at 08:42 PM.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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