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  1. #301

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    I don't know if I like Jason's new short program costume.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    More like she, along with Ando, was gifted in the SP. I would have had Flatt in the penultimate group of the LP rather than 5th after the SP.
    Rachael did clean 3F-3T in the short. I agree that Ando was gifted, but rachael was not. Joannie didnt do 3-3, Mirai didnt do 3-3, Carolina didnt do 3-3. I dont understand why you would put her in a lower group when probably the other person that did a harder 3-3 combination was yuna.

    And in the long, those 3Flips shouldnt have been downgraded and if they werent, she would have been 4th and perhaps very close to 3rd.

  3. #303
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    Regardless of whether Flatt was "gifted," she still shouldn't have been ranked higher than Nagasu, whose PCS marks in the Short Program suffered from having to skate so early due to her low World Ranking.

    Flatt's PCS in the SP was 1.08 higher than Nagasu's, and for what? I think the two skaters' respective PCS are a classic example of reputation-judging and of why starting orders in international competition should not be based on World Ranking.

    ETA: After posting this, I remembered that sk8ingcoach has posted on FSU that she was one of Flatt's coaches in Colorado. Although her bias in favor of her former trainee is understandable, it strikes me that if Flatt's coaches had been more dispassionate about her strengths and weaknesses, they would have worked with her more (or at least differently) on her components.
    Last edited by Vagabond; 08-04-2012 at 06:17 PM.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by DimaToe View Post
    I miss Yagudin
    Me too!
    And I also think Morosov to be somewhat hot.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Regardless of whether Flatt was "gifted," she still shouldn't have been ranked higher than Nagasu, whose PCS marks in the Short Program suffered from having to skate so early due to her low World Ranking.

    Flatt's PCS in the SP was 1.08 higher than Nagasu's, and for what? I think the two skaters' respective PCS are a classic example of reputation-judging and of why starting orders in international competition should not be based on World Ranking.

    ETA: After posting this, I remembered that sk8ingcoach has posted on FSU that she was one of Flatt's coaches in Colorado. Although her bias in favor of her former trainee is understandable, it strikes me that if Flatt's coaches had been more dispassionate about her strengths and weaknesses, they would have worked with her more (or at least differently) on her components.
    Not only her components, but Rachael's Lutz attempt in the SP was not clean or well done. A tougher panel could have had grounds for marking it as UR, just as Ando's flip/lip attempt should have been marked more severely for UR. The Vancouver panel was way too lax with both of them, IMO.

  6. #306
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    Rachael's skating wasn't anywhere near as good in overall quality as Joannie or for that matter Mirai. Now way should Flatt have been near the medal stand.

  7. #307
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    After reading about Holly Cook in the "choreographic WTF" thread, I went on YouTube and looked up some of her programs. I found them kind of fascinating and enjoyable in a campy way. A commentator complained that she was "masculine," but I kind of liked it.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Regardless of whether Flatt was "gifted," she still shouldn't have been ranked higher than Nagasu, whose PCS marks in the Short Program suffered from having to skate so early due to her low World Ranking.

    Flatt's PCS in the SP was 1.08 higher than Nagasu's, and for what? I think the two skaters' respective PCS are a classic example of reputation-judging and of why starting orders in international competition should not be based on World Ranking.

    ETA: After posting this, I remembered that sk8ingcoach has posted on FSU that she was one of Flatt's coaches in Colorado. Although her bias in favor of her former trainee is understandable, it strikes me that if Flatt's coaches had been more dispassionate about her strengths and weaknesses, they would have worked with her more (or at least differently) on her components.


    Well firstly i need to say that no, i have never been one of her coaches. I will also agree that yes her components marks shouldn't be as high as Mirai or Joannie for sure. However it is my belief that in her free program, her 3flips were clean, and if they were marked fairly then she would have placed 4th and maybe 3rd because her technical mark would have been much higher.

  9. #309
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    In the video replay from Olympics the 2 triple flips that received the downgraded were on the borderline 7 cheat (quarter cheat), so they should have been ratified at clean. However even if they were in doubt and had to replay them in slow motion the Technical Panel is always meant to go in favour of the Skater when in doubt and in this case I think don't think they did. If they had of been called fully rotated her technical score would have been higher than both Mirai and Joannie, thus placing her in 4th overall.

    I do not believe that she should have been given higher components than Mirai and Joannie. I think she was placed fairly in the short but was judged unfairly in the Free skate!

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    Well firstly i need to say that no, i have never been one of her coaches. I will also agree that yes her components marks shouldn't be as high as Mirai or Joannie for sure. However it is my belief that in her free program, her 3flips were clean, and if they were marked fairly then she would have placed 4th and maybe 3rd because her technical mark would have been much higher.
    Ah, I misunderstood or misremembered this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    Truthfully, the average list could all be in the embarrassing list, but i tried to spce it out more... And yes, i have actually trained with Rachael ( during olympic season) and she is not as bad as everyone makes her out to be.


    I still think you're overstating your case. Flatt's Total Score in Vancouver was almost eight points behind Nagasu's and twenty points behind Rochette's. Full credit for two triple flips in the FS wouldn't have gotten her even fourth place, let alone third, even with her unfair advantage over Nagasu in PCS.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Ah, I misunderstood or misremembered this post:





    I still think you're overstating your case. Flatt's Total Score in Vancouver was almost eight points behind Nagasu's and twenty points behind Rochette's. Full credit for two triple flips in the FS wouldn't have gotten her even fourth place, let alone third, even with her unfair advantage over Nagasu in PCS.
    Oopsy.. Well i must clarify that i have not coached are trained with Rachael, merely coached at the same rink and in the same sessions as her during olympic season ( i apologize for my incorrect statement)

    In terms of the full credit on the 3Flips, you are mistaken. The base score of a 3F+3T is 9.50 points, whereas she got 5.70 because of the supposed downgrade. And for the second flip, the base value of 3F+2T+2Lo x is 9.13 where as she got 4.95 because of the downgrade. That is a difference of 8 points just on base values. If you take into account the negative GOE marks that she would not have received if they marked her jumps clean, then she would have been ahead of Mirai.

    I will conclude by saying that, yeah she probably wouldnt have beaten Joannie if they were marked clean, but she would have absolutely beaten Mirai and fairly so.

  12. #312
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    Flatt received positive GOE on her 3F<+3T, and GOE of -0.06 on her 3F<+2T+2Lo.

    One could easily argue that she was gifted here, given that she did underrotate those flips.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Flatt received positive GOE on her 3F<+3T, and GOE of -0.06 on her 3F<+2T+2Lo.

    One could easily argue that she was gifted here, given that she did underrotate those flips.
    There was NO WAY she did MORE than a 1/4 cheat on either of the 3Flips.

  14. #314

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    Oooo

    That would be sweet! But who would you have Elena skate with after Nikita leaves? She is too good to be left out with no one, too!

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    There was NO WAY she did MORE than a 1/4 cheat on either of the 3Flips.
    I'm no fan of Rachael, but I am in complete agreement that those flips were both clean and should have been given full credit. It was a horrendously awful call.

  16. #316
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    The worst calls of the entire Olympics, and maybe ever. I definitely would have protested those calls. Those flips couldn't have been cleaner!

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater91 View Post
    In the video replay from Olympics the 2 triple flips that received the downgraded were on the borderline 7 cheat (quarter cheat), so they should have been ratified at clean. However even if they were in doubt and had to replay them in slow motion the Technical Panel is always meant to go in favour of the Skater when in doubt and in this case I think don't think they did. If they had of been called fully rotated her technical score would have been higher than both Mirai and Joannie, thus placing her in 4th overall.

    I do not believe that she should have been given higher components than Mirai and Joannie. I think she was placed fairly in the short but was judged unfairly in the Free skate!
    Flatt's Olympic LP:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K_xs...eature=related

    Nagasu's Olympic LP:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekjre...eature=related

    And just for comparison,
    Ando's Olympic LP:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTX09GUugpo

    and

    Rochette's Olympic LP:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyzkQ...eature=related

  18. #318
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    I have to say, Rachael's flips looked rotated to me. Even so, the best she would/could have scored in that performance would have been under 125 points with the flips rotated. She has a claim to be in 5th, but certainly no higher.

    Her skating was sooo slow! No way that was podium material.

  19. #319
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    If the flips were marked clean, her higher technical score would have placed her above Mirai.

  20. #320
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    I think if Flatt was given credit for those flips, we also would have seen a bigger number from Mirai.

    I'm still not convinced Mirai should have been off the podium. But Rachael should have been 5th for sure.

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