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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Hmmmmm. My son's hockey team keeps score like any other. The only thing that's different is they are not supposed to body check until they are 12.
    Thread drift alert!

    That's because hockey is a real sport (as is figure skating). Well, that is until the most recent changes -- did you know with the new USA Hockey rule changes (last year, I think) there is now no mite travel, no mite full ice games, and they can't check until they are 14?

    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I think it's a little odd to continue nursing to 3, 4 years old. When the child is eating/chewing solid (not puréed) food and drinking other beverages, it's not about nutrition anymore. I'm not judging, but I would not be comfortable with a chil that old still nursing.
    I'll judge. IMO, women who breastfeed a child who is potty trained is doing it for some weird psychological reason of their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Let's say that you have a teenager who does something awful. What are the first things everyone says about it? "Where were the parents? What's wrong with the parents?"

    This is invariably followed by multiple posts about parents today who want to be their kids' friends and these rotten, privileged, pampered kids, etc.

    Or you have the reverse and you have a terrific kid. Ah, her parents must have raised her right.

    It all comes back to the basic idea that we are what our parents make us--in spite of the fact that most of us have ample evidence that we are what a whole lot of things made us, some of which we probably aren't even aware of.
    I have no idea how I ended up with such a good teen. He had plenty of chances to be a problem child - we are nowhere near perfect parents - but we got lucky with him.

  2. #42

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    The cover is a tasteless gimmick.

  3. #43
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    So I got two kinds of responses from my friends about this: one is LOVE LOVE Dr. SEARS and one HATE HATE Dr. SEARS, kinda like HC here.

    Who is Dr. Sears?
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Let's say that you have a teenager who does something awful. What are the first things everyone says about it? "Where were the parents? What's wrong with the parents?"

    This is invariably followed by multiple posts about parents today who want to be their kids' friends and these rotten, privileged, pampered kids, etc.

    Or you have the reverse and you have a terrific kid. Ah, her parents must have raised her right.
    I think you see a lot of the former, but not as much of the latter. I think by the time a child graduates from high school, people tend to praise the child for being mature and responsible rather than the parents.

    I think back to discussions about skaters here, and people will blame Tonya Harding's messed up childhood, but you don't hear a lot of praise for, say, Rachel Flatt's parents.

    IOW, parents are set-up to be criticized for failure, but not really praised for successes (in part because not infrequently those successes came despite parental upbringing rather than because of it. The same holds true for messed-up kids, but parents will always be blamed for that).

    I also think parents tend to blame failures of their children on outside things, but believe success should be attributable to them. So there's a bit of skewing that can take place on the part of some parents.

    What some see as parental success, others would not. And what some view as parental failure may be viewed differently by others. Different standards and all. We all like to think of ourselves as good parents, and will naturally defend that even when perhaps we shouldn't. But it hits too close to home for many to view it otherwise.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Let's say that you have a teenager who does something awful. What are the first things everyone says about it? "Where were the parents? What's wrong with the parents?"

    This is invariably followed by multiple posts about parents today who want to be their kids' friends and these rotten, privileged, pampered kids, etc.
    Well that's true too. And it drives me crazy.

    But I'm not sure that's connected to some of the parenting wars that spring up when kids are younger than pre-school age. At least not directly.

    I think when you're a new parent, you aren't really worrying about whether or not the way you potty train is going to keep your kid out of Harvard (assuming you even want your kid to go there). Things like them dying of SIDS or getting hurt in a car accident because you put the child seat in wrong are much more immediate. Plus, for the first couple of years, it's not like your kid can tell you what kind of an impact your decisions are making on them. So that makes every decision that much harder.

    As they grow up, it gets easier because they can give you more feedback and also you see that not every bad decision results in immediate intensely negative consequences, plus you've settled into a parenting style that suits you, so most parents relax on that and can be more easy-going about the parenting of others.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

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    Well, there are many different ways to skin the cat.

    I hate when so called 'experts' start telling mothers about the one right way to raise their children. There was a time when the collective wisdom of mothers sufficed. Then along came the typically male psychologists/scientists who claimed to have all the right answers.

    In my mom's time it was Dr. Spock. I remember my mom being totally perplexed when she followed his advice to give me a choice between doing two chores and I answered "neither".

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    I find that cover disgusting. I have only seen it on the TV screen, not the actual magazine cover, but all the attention it's getting is not because of the article, but because of the picture. IMO they did it just to get attention, and IMO that is in a really bad taste.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by maatTheViking View Post
    While my breasts are bigge than hers, even was before I nursed, they don't look that small to me.

    I am so happy I didn't read any parenting books, but followed my peditrician's basic advice and my instincts. Worked out well. Only thing that terrified me was SIDS - movement sensing baby alarm kept me sane.

    I agree that there is a lot of pressure on you to 'do the right thing'. I still think as long as you feed, clothe, put a roof over you kids head and don't hit/abuse them everything else is gravy.

    I'm not sleeping with my kid in my bed on most days, but if someone else are, it is their issue.
    I don't have kids, but I was a kid and I agree with this. I really don't believe I have a great relationship with my mom because she breastfed me. I don't even remember how long she did it. I have a great relationship with my mom because I know she loves me and will always support me, so we can tell each other anything.

    The details go in the wash in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I don't think it's just that, though.

    Let's say that you have a teenager who does something awful. What are the first things everyone says about it? "Where were the parents? What's wrong with the parents?"

    This is invariably followed by multiple posts about parents today who want to be their kids' friends and these rotten, privileged, pampered kids, etc.

    Or you have the reverse and you have a terrific kid. Ah, her parents must have raised her right.

    It all comes back to the basic idea that we are what our parents make us--in spite of the fact that most of us have ample evidence that we are what a whole lot of things made us, some of which we probably aren't even aware of.
    I agree with agalisgv that most of that fades when the child turns 18 and isn't legally dependent on the parents. When the parents ARE legal guardians, you do wonder what kind of supervision they have if they're off getting into trouble.

    It never ends for Asian families, though. Anything you do reflects on your parents. I have no idea how it happens, since my parents never explicitly told me not to shame the family (at least that I remember), but I have that drummed into my head anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    I think you see a lot of the former, but not as much of the latter. I think by the time a child graduates from high school, people tend to praise the child for being mature and responsible rather than the parents.

    I think back to discussions about skaters here, and people will blame Tonya Harding's messed up childhood, but you don't hear a lot of praise for, say, Rachel Flatt's parents.

    IOW, parents are set-up to be criticized for failure, but not really praised for successes (in part because not infrequently those successes came despite parental upbringing rather than because of it. The same holds true for messed-up kids, but parents will always be blamed for that).

    I also think parents tend to blame failures of their children on outside things, but believe success should be attributable to them. So there's a bit of skewing that can take place on the part of some parents.

    What some see as parental success, others would not. And what some view as parental failure may be viewed differently by others. Different standards and all. We all like to think of ourselves as good parents, and will naturally defend that even when perhaps we shouldn't. But it hits too close to home for many to view it otherwise.
    Really? When my sister and I got into the colleges we did, there was practically a line outside my mom's office at work, made up of other mothers (sometimes with kindergarteners) asking what her secret was.

    Then again...yeah, Asian parents.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    In my mom's time it was Dr. Spock. I remember my mom being totally perplexed when she followed his advice to give me a choice between doing two chores and I answered "neither".
    Some people are just born smartasses.

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    Who cares whether you do everything right when thye are 0-5? It will all seem wrong anyway when they are 14

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I find that cover disgusting. I have only seen it on the TV screen, not the actual magazine cover, but all the attention it's getting is not because of the article, but because of the picture. IMO they did it just to get attention, and IMO that is in a really bad taste.
    A magazine putting something on the cover to get attention? Who would've thunk it?

    For some reason, the cover makes me think of Tori Amos....
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    I think that we are, in part, what our parents make us. It's an important but not the only contributing factor.
    Yes, parents do effect who and what we become. But the operative words are, in part. I think that Prancer would agree with that. There are many things that effect who/what we become: genetics (particularly psychological disorders), parents, teachers, siblings, peers, environment. It is a stew of all of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by sk8er1964 View Post
    Thread drift alert!

    That's because hockey is a real sport (as is figure skating). Well, that is until the most recent changes -- did you know with the new USA Hockey rule changes (last year, I think) there is now no mite travel, no mite full ice games, and they can't check until they are 14?
    Some of those changes were for the safety/health of the kids. The checking rule specifically, to prevent concussions, broken bones, in such young children. My son was checked at 9. He wound up with a broken ankle that needed pins.

    I'll judge. IMO, women who breastfeed a child who is potty trained is doing it for some weird psychological reason of their own.
    I would agree that breastfeeding beyond 2 is more for the mother than the child. As Anita said, breastfeeding will not establish a wonderful relationship. Nor will the early cessation or lack of breastfeeding hinder one. A child/parent relationship is built on love, trust, and nurturing way beyond how the child is fed.

    One thing I do not have a problem with, is allowing the child to sleep with mommy and daddy. Not necessarily every night. But, when the child is upset, has a nightmare, or not feeling well. It is comforting to know that mommy and daddy are right there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    In my mom's time it was Dr. Spock. I remember my mom being totally perplexed when she followed his advice to give me a choice between doing two chores and I answered "neither".
    Sounds like my daughter.
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

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    First glance, I thought the child was 5ish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cupid View Post
    First glance, I thought the child was 5ish.
    Mmm, I agree with you and others who have said he looks older than he is. But, I don't see why the Times would give an incorrect age.

    I also think the staging of the photo makes it look more inappropriate. The child standing on a chair, the cargo pants, the way the child is looking at the camera (instead of his mother). If the child were sitting on his mom's lap and were dressed a little more toddlerish, people might not have reacted so intensely. The photo doesn't come across as nurturing, just odd.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8er1964 View Post

    I'll judge. IMO, women who breastfeed a child who is potty trained is doing it for some weird psychological reason of their own.
    Ditto. If a horse with a foal of the equivalent age would be kicking the living daylights out of it to force-wean it until it got the point, it's too old to be nursing. Animals are in some ways wiser than humans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post

    I also think the staging of the photo makes it look more inappropriate. The child standing on a chair, the cargo pants, the way the child is looking at the camera (instead of his mother). If the child were sitting on his mom's lap and were dressed a little more toddlerish, people might not have reacted so intensely. The photo doesn't come across as nurturing, just odd.
    Totally agree, especially him looking at the camera - that doesn't feel in line with the whole 'bonding/connection' thing that attachment parenting touts.
    It doesn't look like a loving mother feeding her child, but a wierd ass fashion photography with 2 models...

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    Well, there are many different ways to skin the cat.

    I hate when so called 'experts' start telling mothers about the one right way to raise their children. There was a time when the collective wisdom of mothers sufficed. Then along came the typically male psychologists/scientists who claimed to have all the right answers.

    In my mom's time it was Dr. Spock. I remember my mom being totally perplexed when she followed his advice to give me a choice between doing two chores and I answered "neither".
    I agree. Their "methods" may not work for all children. It's not a one size fits all.

    Since we are all sharing anecdotes: I know a family where the first child was raised in full attachment parenting mode and the second one was not. The first is a problem child with poor impulse control who is failing school, only because this kid is not willing to exert themselves an iota. The firstborn was nursed into their 3s.

    Because the parents never got any sleep with the attachment parenting of the firstborn, they didn't use it with their second who is an excellent student, an affectionate and poised child. This one was weaned at 7 months.

    Who knows what contributed to what outcomes? I am not certain but there it is. The mom of the above family was the one whose response to the TIME article was "I HATE HATE HATE DR. SEARS!" However, I would also guess that the mom would consider the natural tendencies and character of each child as a contributing factor to who they are today. It's complicated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    It never ends for Asian families, though. Anything you do reflects on your parents. I have no idea how it happens, since my parents never explicitly told me not to shame the family (at least that I remember), but I have that drummed into my head anyway.
    It's similar to a lot of Jewish families. The kids are expected to excel, period. Nothing less than an A is ever considered acceptable. Otherwise it's , , and so on. The original tiger mom is Chinese, married to a Jew, a double wammy. That joke "Mom, I have Hepatitis B"--"Why not Hepatitis A???!!!" really resonates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    Really? When my sister and I got into the colleges we did, there was practically a line outside my mom's office at work, made up of other mothers *(sometimes with kindergarteners) asking what her secret was. :loll:
    Then again...yeah, Asian parents.
    Anita, ITA about successful kids' parents. When I heard about Vanessa Lam's achievement, my first thought was "how did the parents do it???", although I realize that it's not entirely up to the parent. Few kids can be pushed to Vanessa's level on achievement. Most of it comes from within but the parents help IMO.

    I think I posted the Vanessa Lam thing here on the Nats thread, I was completely blown away by her. I think it was Southpaw who mentioned honey badger parenting.

    ITA with cruisin regarding letting an upset, scared or sick child sleep with the parents. But only in those instances. My son is an extremely restless sleeper and rotates 180 or 90 degrees in his sleep with alarming frequency. In the process he kicks various body parts of the people who happen to be in the bed. The times he did sleep with us, we were afraid to wake up with a black eye or worse. I am considering calling an exorcist.
    Last edited by IceAlisa; 05-11-2012 at 04:48 PM.
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    This woman's boobs aren't big enough to have a significant amount of milk. Why is she still doing it?
    Have you never breast fed? Boob size has nothing to do with it. (take it from me)

    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    But that cover smacks of sensationalism.
    Yup, right before Mother's Day. TIME certainly has sparked some magazine sales.

    As for SIDS, one theory I've heard (and I'll try to find the link) suggests that it's the chemicals and fire retardants in mattresses that do it. The reason they know this is because in New Zealand, fire retardants in furniture is against the law. How many cases of SIDS so they have? Next to zero.

    Again, I'll try to find the link. But if you think about how much time a baby spends sleeping in a crib, with all those chemicals, it makes sense to me.

    Buy an organic mattress.

    As for the other stuff, I never read any books or watched videos to prepare for birth. And I did it drug-free both times. I think the whole maternal-complex (just like the wedding industrial complex) is designed to make you think you need to buy all this stuff, or have all this advice. Our forefathers (or foremothers) managed without all of that crap, and I figured I could too. Has worked for me so far.

    That said, I'm a big fan of breastfeeding and did it with my kids up to 9 months and 6 months respectively. I wore them in a sling as long as my back could handle it. We co-sleep every once in a blue moon . . . but crying it out worked fantastically for us, and both boys sleep well by themselves.
    Last edited by manleywoman; 05-11-2012 at 05:09 PM.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by manleywoman View Post
    Have you never breast fed? Boob size has nothing to do with it. (take it from me)
    Yes, I have, with smaller breasts. Breast size doesn't necessarily but in some instances predict the overall quantity of milk but it really does affect how much you can store at a time. You just simply cannot fit all that milk in a smaller breasts so you have to nurse more frequently to get rid of it if you are producing a lot.

    It's not a problem with infants when you feed every 2 hours or so but with a 3-4 year old who is not likely to feed that often (although who knows?), chances are good there isn't a lot in that boob.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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